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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 17, 2020 12:12:41 GMT -6
Bruce, you're going to have to change your screen name to "The Coach". Come on, Phil, you can do this thing! You've got to have confidence and a positive attitude! Now get down and give me ten! PS - you're gonna hate it when I call for wind sprints after practice
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Post by grampalerxst on Apr 17, 2020 12:45:39 GMT -6
... I've always had a tough time counting 16th notes in 12/8 time, and have never really heard a good explanation of how to count these. ... I count eighths in 12/8 1-and-ah 2-and-ah 3-and-ah 4-and-ah. Sixteenths in that framework are then 1/6th of a beat. I count the sixteenths 1-ta-ta-and-ta-ta 2-ta-ta-and-ta-ta etc. So iirc those sixteenths in the first two beats of the last bar go like (1-ta-)ta-and-ta-(ta 2-ta) ta-and-ta-(ta) where the stuff in ()s are either part of a rest or a held note, i.e., no attack at those divisions. At a "slow blues tempo" like we're working towards, even an auctioneer might struggle! I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's the method I picked up from Barrett Tagliarino's book. It helped me a lot in BYCU studies, but hasn't helped a lick in BLYCU (pun intended). In Wyatt's Blues Guitar Soloing book, sixteenth notes don't show up until pretty deep into the book where I have not ventured yet (it's arranged progressively). They are a pain, but it's an important subdivision for guitarists in 12/8 slow blues from what I've seen, so I need to get it figured out better.
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 17, 2020 14:25:35 GMT -6
... I've always had a tough time counting 16th notes in 12/8 time, and have never really heard a good explanation of how to count these. ... I count eighths in 12/8 1-and-ah 2-and-ah 3-and-ah 4-and-ah. Sixteenths in that framework are then 1/6th of a beat. I count the sixteenths 1-ta-ta-and-ta-ta 2-ta-ta-and-ta-ta etc. So iirc those sixteenths in the first two beats of the last bar go like (1-ta-)ta-and-ta-(ta 2-ta) ta-and-ta-(ta) where the stuff in ()s are either part of a rest or a held note, i.e., no attack at those divisions. At a "slow blues tempo" like we're working towards, even an auctioneer might struggle! I don't know if that's right or wrong, but that's the method I picked up from Barrett Tagliarino's book. It helped me a lot in BYCU studies, but hasn't helped a lick in BLYCU (pun intended). In Wyatt's Blues Guitar Soloing book, sixteenth notes don't show up until pretty deep into the book where I have not ventured yet (it's arranged progressively). They are a pain, but it's an important subdivision for guitarists in 12/8 slow blues from what I've seen, so I need to get it figured out better. Grampa, I appreciate that explanation. I'm just not sure I like it though... I think the basic problem is having 24 subdivisions of the beat per measure. In 4/4 time with 16th notes, you've got 16 subdivisions per measure, and the "one-e-and-a- two-e-and-a- three-e-and-a- four-e-and-a" thing works pretty darn well. This is a nice, understandable (at least to me) extension from eighth notes (one-and- two-and- three-and- four-and). I just can't seem to wrap my simple thinking around the 24 subdivisions per measure thing. We all (or at least I) seem to be able to comprehend 12 subdivisions per measure (one-and-a- two-and-a- three-and-a- four-and-a), which is 12/8 with 8th notes. So if I tell you "it's on the "a" of four", you know what subdivision I'm talking about. Now if we go to 12/8 with 16th notes and you tell me "it's on the "ta" of two, I don't have any idea which of the four ta's you're talking about. I agree with you 100% that it is an important subdivision if you want to play slow blues. I guess I need to get it figured out better, too. I've almost convinced myself that I've just got to learn to feel it more than to count it.
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Post by grampalerxst on Apr 17, 2020 15:21:35 GMT -6
Grampa, I appreciate that explanation. I'm just not sure I like it though... I think the basic problem is having 24 subdivisions of the beat per measure. In 4/4 time with 16th notes, you've got 16 subdivisions per measure, and the "one-e-and-a- two-e-and-a- three-e-and-a- four-e-and-a" thing works pretty darn well. This is a nice, understandable (at least to me) extension from eighth notes (one-and- two-and- three-and- four-and). I just can't seem to wrap my simple thinking around the 24 subdivisions per measure thing. We all (or at least I) seem to be able to comprehend 12 subdivisions per measure (one-and-a- two-and-a- three-and-a- four-and-a), which is 12/8 with 8th notes. So if I tell you "it's on the "a" of four", you know what subdivision I'm talking about. Now if we go to 12/8 with 16th notes and you tell me "it's on the "ta" of two, I don't have any idea which of the four ta's you're talking about. I agree with you 100% that it is an important subdivision if you want to play slow blues. I guess I need to get it figured out better, too. I've almost convinced myself that I've just got to learn to feel it more than to count it. I understand. I think of it as 6/beat rather than 24/measure, seems less intimidating that way and for me beats are easier to feel than measures. And you're right, it doesn't lend itself to some of the vocabulary we're used to. It's probably better to think of a beat as 1-ta-and-ta-ah-ta, or 1-e-and-e-ah-e if you like e's better (less of a tongue-twister too), to preserve the triplet/odd feel, but I learned 1-ta-ta-and-ta-ta as a way to count sextuplets in 4/4 and just adapted it as a way to get through some of the BYCU studies. So maybe someone knows a better way, I'd love to know one. Ultimately you probably have to feel them, and they are far beyond the granularity of my rhythmic feel at the tempo we're going for. I might have to go to a super-slow tempo where I can count them out loud even though at first I thought I wouldn't need to.
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Post by joachim on Apr 17, 2020 16:06:35 GMT -6
I played around with recording it tonight - had to refresh how to record and process videos under Linux.
There seem to be a little audio clipping in a couple places - I think that's an artifact of the video editing software (Openshot).
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 17, 2020 18:49:01 GMT -6
Nicely played, Joachim. Timing sounds dead on to me (after listening to this lick in various forms about a thousand times).
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Post by Phil on Apr 17, 2020 19:54:39 GMT -6
Joachim: Sounds great. I used to hate this lick. It sounds horrible to me in isolation. Having now heard it in its proper context I like it. And I agree with Bruce. You nailed the timing.
Grampa: I had been trying to come up a mnemonic for those damn 16th notes. Your "1 ta ta and ta ta" works for me. I can remember it. I'd never remember 5 different nonsense syllables and I have no expectation of ever explaining to anyone which "ta" a note falls on. "The Coach" is probably gonna make me to pushups now.
After listening to Joachim play this over a backing track the timing doesn't appear nearly as difficult as it appears on paper.
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 18, 2020 8:32:52 GMT -6
been trying to come up a mnemonic for those damn 16th notes. Your "1 ta ta and ta ta" works for me. I can remember it. I'd never remember 5 different nonsense syllables and I have no expectation of ever explaining to anyone which "ta" a note falls on.
After listening to Joachim play this over a backing track the timing doesn't appear nearly as difficult as it appears on paper.
OK, how about "ONE-Cal-i-for-ni-ah TWO-Cal-i-for-ni-ah THREE-Cal-i-for-ni-ah FOUR-Cal-i-for-ni-ah FOUR-Cal-i-for-ni-ah"... I think it's a case of whatever works for you, as there does not seem to be a "usual" or "standard" way that people count this rhythm. Maybe the suggestion to think of it in terms of each beat instead of each bar is the way to try to wrap my head around it. I think you hit the nail right on the head with your last comment - when you hear it in the context of the backing track, it doesn't seem as difficult as trying to count it out when it's isolated out of context. Maybe that's why programming it into Guitar Pro seems to help me at least to hear the timing of it, although you don't get the dynamics, the articulations, the inflections, etc.
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Post by Phil on Apr 19, 2020 13:35:17 GMT -6
No video yet, but here's me noodling around with this lick. This is the first time I've played my Squier Strat since I got the Ibanez archtop and that's been a couple of years. The Ibanez is strung up with 13s and I ain't no SRV. Lick #1
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Post by cunningr on Apr 19, 2020 16:05:24 GMT -6
What are you guys using for a backing track? I laid down 4 bars into my trio plus was working over that but Cant get 5he backing from that into my computer.
Phil nice job, good tone too.
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Post by Phil on Apr 19, 2020 16:19:32 GMT -6
What are you guys using for a backing track? I laid down 4 bars into my trio plus was working over that but Cant get 5he backing from that into my computer. Phil nice job, good tone too. Thanks, Rich.
The backing track is track 78 on the CD. I ripped the CD to mp3 and pulled the track it into my DAW.
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Post by joachim on Apr 20, 2020 7:13:45 GMT -6
What are you guys using for a backing track? I laid down 4 bars into my trio plus was working over that but Cant get 5he backing from that into my computer. Phil nice job, good tone too. Thanks, Rich.
The backing track is track 78 on the CD. I ripped the CD to mp3 and pulled the track it into my DAW.
I love it, and the tone was just great!
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Post by Phil on Apr 20, 2020 9:38:16 GMT -6
I was wondering if you guys think I got the timing of the lick relatively close to what is written. I think I mostly did except for the last 4 notes which, according to the tab, fall on the last four 16th notes of beat 3. In each chorus I inadvertently moved it slightly. The way it's written is awkward for me. In fact, the whole 4th bar is difficult to feel. I hadn't recorded anything direct in a long long time and I was never happy with my tone in the past. I have a free copy of Amplitube that came with my amp. I like the simplicity, but couldn't get a tone I was happy with after fooling around about 45 minutes. Then I pulled up an old track and copied the plugin setup. After just 5 minutes of tweaking I got a tone that I was happy with. I need to save this as a template. If anybody is interested here's the VST plugin setup I have in Reaper: Amp - Le456 by LePou (emulates some kind of popular amp. I'm not much of a gearhead.) Cabinet Impulse loader - LeCab2 by LePou Cabinet IR - Marshall stack from Redwire Impulse Reverb - TAL Reverb Overdrive - TAL Tube These are all free plugins that I got years ago. I remember there being a big learning curve with the LePou amp and cabinet plugins. It wasn't user friendly. I didn't use any compression or EQ. I had them in the setup but disabled them because they didn't improve the tone. I used the neck pickup on my Squier Classic 60s Strat. Volume wide open and tone rolled back to 3 or 4. I think had my guitar too loud in the mix. I just wanted to get something uploaded to the forum so I didn't spend any time tweaking the final mix.
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Post by cunningr on Apr 20, 2020 12:39:12 GMT -6
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Post by Phil on Apr 20, 2020 13:08:36 GMT -6
Rich, The first 4 bars of the backing track is actually an intro that consists of the last 4 bars of a 12-bar blues. The 1st chorus starts at about 15 or 16 seconds in. This particular lick is played over the first 4 bars of a Blues.
However, the way you phrased it fit and sounded pretty damn good. That's the thing about these Blues licks. Many can be used anyplace with some changes in the phrasing.
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Post by joachim on Apr 20, 2020 13:26:32 GMT -6
Nice, Rich. I agree with Phil, nice phrasing and sound - this will be a great forum activity!
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Post by cunningr on Apr 20, 2020 14:03:55 GMT -6
Yeah after I posted I realized this was intro cause I went to add 2 more bars for the change and feel of the lick just felt better.
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 20, 2020 16:06:01 GMT -6
It's interesting how well that worked over the intro - now that's blues licks you can really use!
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Post by cunningr on Apr 21, 2020 1:03:50 GMT -6
I sent a copy to my instructor and he gave me a thumbs up also, this is a lick very much in the style of Albert King, if I am not mistaken from the Sky is Cry-in
I want to keep ingraining the lick, I had a very Bonamassa lick down but now i cant remember the last part because started covering other material.
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Post by cunningr on Apr 21, 2020 13:29:58 GMT -6
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