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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 13, 2020 21:04:45 GMT -6
Here's Lick 1 programmed into Guitar Pro and played over a few times (with backing chords and metronome) - should help with getting the timing as tabbed out. Joachim has been helping me try to put the audio recording over the backing track. I think JG kind or plays these a bit freely in terms of time, and I expect he played phrases and then tabbed them out after the fact - so that musical notation and "what you hear" may not mesh 100%. Anyway, please feel free to alter the phrasing to your own liking and make it your own - this is just to provide guidance and assistance, not "play it this way or the highway".
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Post by Phil on Apr 14, 2020 0:21:15 GMT -6
Putting it into Guitar Pro is probably the simplest solution. Good job, Bruce.
I hope nobody gets too hung up on the minutia of John's specific phrasing. I certainly did when I first got the book and I never got past lick 1. I got way too hung up on that. I doubt that John even expects you to play them exactly the way he does. That's something I didn't understand at the time.
I also didn't like that the licks weren't played over a backing track. I simply couldn't hear or feel the licks in any kind of context.
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Post by joachim on Apr 14, 2020 0:56:51 GMT -6
I love it, Bruce! This is going to be a great forum activity!
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Post by Marc on Apr 14, 2020 0:57:51 GMT -6
Putting it into Guitar Pro is probably the simplest solution. Good job, Bruce. I hope nobody gets too hung up on the minutia of John's specific phrasing. I certainly did when I first got the book and I never got past lick 1. I got way too hung up on that. I doubt that John even expects you to play them exactly the way he does. That's something I didn't understand at the time. I also didn't like that the licks weren't played over a backing track. I simply couldn't hear or feel the licks in any kind of context. I'm struggling a little with learning the licks out of context of the backing track some. I'm secretly waiting for the first poster to figure out if i'm doing it right. Crap, I just told my secret.
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Post by joachim on Apr 14, 2020 4:04:03 GMT -6
Putting it into Guitar Pro is probably the simplest solution. Good job, Bruce. I hope nobody gets too hung up on the minutia of John's specific phrasing. I certainly did when I first got the book and I never got past lick 1. I got way too hung up on that. I doubt that John even expects you to play them exactly the way he does. That's something I didn't understand at the time. I also didn't like that the licks weren't played over a backing track. I simply couldn't hear or feel the licks in any kind of context. I also got totally confused by the timing of the first lick, and listening to John's recording. I am not of the opinion that it doesn't matter, though. Since there are tabs provided, you should be able to count out the lick really slowly and play it spot on. From my lessons with John, that has always been his philosophy. And that also agrees with "common practice" - nail it at a dead-slow tempo, then you know the lick - the rest is technique. Especially for lick 1 there is big difference in feel depending on where you accent the beat. This how I counted out the lick last night at a really slow tempo. I could be wrong also, but Bruce's Guitar Pro version will set me straight. BYCULick-April-2020.mp3 (918.36 KB)
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Post by Marc on Apr 14, 2020 5:21:53 GMT -6
I also got totally confused by the timing of the first lick, and listening to John's recording. I am not of the opinion that it doesn't matter, though. Since there are tabs provided, you should be able to count out the lick really slowly and play it spot on. From my lessons with John, that has always been his philosophy. And that also agrees with "common practice" - nail it at a dead-slow tempo, then you know the lick - the rest is technique. Especially for lick 1 there is big difference in feel depending on where you accent the beat. This how I counted out the lick last night at a really slow tempo. I could be wrong also, but Bruce's Guitar Pro version will set me straight. Man that is helpful,
When i play it...i run out of time, when i listen you got lots of time. the conclusion is that I'm not playing fast enough in the right spots, and rushing others.
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Post by joachim on Apr 14, 2020 6:00:00 GMT -6
I also got totally confused by the timing of the first lick, and listening to John's recording. I am not of the opinion that it doesn't matter, though. Since there are tabs provided, you should be able to count out the lick really slowly and play it spot on. From my lessons with John, that has always been his philosophy. And that also agrees with "common practice" - nail it at a dead-slow tempo, then you know the lick - the rest is technique. Especially for lick 1 there is big difference in feel depending on where you accent the beat. This how I counted out the lick last night at a really slow tempo. I could be wrong also, but Bruce's Guitar Pro version will set me straight. Man that is helpful,
When i play it...i run out of time, when i listen you got lots of time. the conclusion is that I'm not playing fast enough in the right spots, and rushing others.
I play it so slowly that I can count difficult parts in triplet-time "1-&-2-&-3-&" - for this lick, especially the last measure was awkward for me. It felt weird for me to start on "2".
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 14, 2020 7:30:33 GMT -6
OK, how about this:
This is the lick tabbed in Guitar Pro, exported, played over backing track 78, with the metronome count going. I know GP isn't like a real guitar player playing, but it should at least let everyone hear the timing in the context of the backing track for learning purposes.
Joachim, you were right - when I put this in my DAW, I can see that that last audio file I had sent you was pretty darned close - only the very final phrase was off. I would also point out for anyone trying to count this out from the music in the book, that the final rest in the fourth measure should be a dotted quarter note (in the book it is not dotted). In this GP version, I also converted all the rests to held notes, which is more in line with how JG plays it on the recording.
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Post by grampalerxst on Apr 15, 2020 8:54:20 GMT -6
I'm in the process of relearning how to rip a cd to mp3, something I haven't done in a long time. I think the approach I'm going to take is to then take the audio and use Transcribe! to slow it down. Once I get a feel for the phrase I'll probably try it with the backing, or if I need to, put the backing in Transcribe to mate them up at a slower speed. I've played the lick based on the notation. I hate counting 16ths in 12/8, btw, but that Tagliarino book I worked through the first half of continues to pay dividends. But it sounds pretty sleepy so I want to try to imitate some of JGs articulation and phrasing. Then depending on the backing track (have never listened to it) I'll probably try to construct a 1-2 chorus solo using the lick as a basis of a call/response or use the first bit of the lick as a motif. Then I'll describe how great it sounds, and make excuses why I never bothered to record it, and inquire why Phil's video is missing (last bit is meant to be humorous, I hope I do get it recorded, not kidding about Phil). Does that sound cricket?
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 15, 2020 15:53:14 GMT -6
I'm in the process of relearning how to rip a cd to mp3, something I haven't done in a long time. I think the approach I'm going to take is to then take the audio and use Transcribe! to slow it down. Once I get a feel for the phrase I'll probably try it with the backing, or if I need to, put the backing in Transcribe to mate them up at a slower speed. I've played the lick based on the notation. I hate counting 16ths in 12/8, btw, but that Tagliarino book I worked through the first half of continues to pay dividends. But it sounds pretty sleepy so I want to try to imitate some of JGs articulation and phrasing. Then depending on the backing track (have never listened to it) I'll probably try to construct a 1-2 chorus solo using the lick as a basis of a call/response or use the first bit of the lick as a motif. Then I'll describe how great it sounds, and make excuses why I never bothered to record it, and inquire why Phil's video is missing (last bit is meant to be humorous, I hope I do get it recorded, not kidding about Phil). Does that sound cricket? Grampa, I was trying to match up JG's recording of the lick with the backing track using time shifting in Logic Pro (with Joachim's feedback) - this was taking a lot of time and not working out very well. I don't think JG recorded those licks with a click track, so I ended up just opting to enter the tab into Guitar Pro to give everyone a demonstration of the timing as the lick is written and how it fits with the backing track. The Guitar Pro audio definitely lacks "the human touch", so I would definitely listen to JG's version for that. If you'd like mp3's of any of these, just PM me an e-mail address (you could put it into Transcribe and slow it down, or even shift the key - at least so I understand, I don't actually have Transcribe). Or if it'd help, I can post a half speed or 3/4 speed version of these. If people are interested, I could post these as mp3's to Dropbox or Google drive, where they can be downloaded, and probably be easier to play around with than the Youtube posts. Bruce
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Post by blackcountrymick on Apr 15, 2020 15:54:55 GMT -6
My new book came today, so I'm in as well.
I got reaper working on my new computer last night, just need to get the video bit sorted and working now.
Thanks Bruce and J for the tips on how to get started with the licks book.
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Post by grampalerxst on Apr 16, 2020 5:28:38 GMT -6
Grampa, I was trying to match up JG's recording of the lick with the backing track using time shifting in Logic Pro (with Joachim's feedback) - this was taking a lot of time and not working out very well. I don't think JG recorded those licks with a click track, so I ended up just opting to enter the tab into Guitar Pro to give everyone a demonstration of the timing as the lick is written and how it fits with the backing track. The Guitar Pro audio definitely lacks "the human touch", so I would definitely listen to JG's version for that. If you'd like mp3's of any of these, just PM me an e-mail address (you could put it into Transcribe and slow it down, or even shift the key - at least so I understand, I don't actually have Transcribe). Or if it'd help, I can post a half speed or 3/4 speed version of these. If people are interested, I could post these as mp3's to Dropbox or Google drive, where they can be downloaded, and probably be easier to play around with than the Youtube posts. Bruce Hey Bruce, thanks. I finally got started on this a little this morning. All I'm doing so far is playing along with the demo trying to duplicate it, and just using transcribe to loop on the slower demo of the phrases. It happens with this one I don't need to slow it down further than that. He (JG) has a click to count in but it drops out before he demos the phrase. It's confusing because the count in is four beats which makes it feel like the first phrase is starting on beat 1, but in the notation it starts on beat 2. Eventually I'll start to speed it up. The main useful feature of Transcribe is that it will alter the speed of audio without changing the pitch--more or less what I think time shifting is doing in your DAW. So as I incrementally increase the speed in transcribe I will still be trying to lock in with the demo and imitate JG's performance. At some point I'll have to "jump over" to the backing track and sink or swim on my own without the demo as a handrail, but by then I should be comfortable with it at similar tempos. The only place I have trouble with the timing so far is starting the final lick in bar 4, which my instincts want to put on the downbeat of one instead of the "and" of "one and a". Anyway, it sounds like everyone else is way ahead of me in that I'm not close to tying in the backing track yet. But when that time comes I'll be sure to check out the GP plus backing track. Sounds like a great reference!
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Post by cunningr on Apr 16, 2020 11:54:39 GMT -6
Well I have been just memorizing the lick as too lazy to look for my cd drive to grab the backing. This is very similar to the sky is crying if Isve the right tune, it was one I was working on several months back.
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Post by Marc on Apr 16, 2020 16:47:12 GMT -6
I'll be the first. Here is my take. Still working on bends and how to do videos.
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 16, 2020 20:38:51 GMT -6
Way to go, Marc! Now I'd encourage you to keep working this lick for 5-10 minutes every day - play it in some different keys, slow it down, speed it up, change the dynamics, etc. The idea is to learn this to where you can use it! You've got until Sunday 4/26/20 to keep working this one. See if you can slip it (or part of it) into something you're working on - maybe somewhere into "Lazy Day Blues" if you're still working on that - that will also require changing the key of Lick 1. These are all just ideas - take them or leave them as you see fit. We'll probably have to start a new thread for posting recordings of this, or we may end up with a thread that's just too long.
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Post by Phil on Apr 16, 2020 23:27:24 GMT -6
I took my first real shot at this lick Thursday. The challenge with this lick is getting the friggin' timing right. The count-in is 4 beats, but the lick starts on beat 2 of the next measure. (I think Grampa mentioned this). That keeps throwing me off and then there's the ... never mind I'm just frustrated. Why the hell weren't these licks demonstrated over a backing track? At least they could have left the metronome running. I can't get the feel of this damn lick. OK, I'm done complaining. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I guess I'll have to listen to Bruce's Guitar Pro recording about a 100 times and see if I can get this.
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Post by joachim on Apr 17, 2020 1:16:17 GMT -6
Nicely played, Marc, and terrific tone! A subjective critique (which JohnG often gives me during lessons) that the breaks are as important as the notes. To me it sounded like you're letting the notes ring longer than on John's recoring, and it removes some of the "brisk" nature of the lick.
But that's a purely subjective comment, and I like your recording a lot.
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Post by grampalerxst on Apr 17, 2020 3:57:28 GMT -6
I took my first real shot at this lick Thursday. The challenge with this lick is getting the friggin' timing right. The count-in is 4 beats, but the lick starts on beat 2 of the next measure. (I think Grampa mentioned this). That keeps throwing me off and then there's the ... never mind I'm just frustrated. Why the hell weren't these licks demonstrated over a backing track? At least they could have left the metronome running. I can't get the feel of this damn lick. OK, I'm done complaining. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I guess I'll have to listen to Bruce's Guitar Pro recording about a 100 times and see if I can get this. I have basically the same "complaints". For "Lick 1" in a collection, it's pretty advanced, and the tempo is too fast for me to count those 16th-notes properly. I guess now I remember why it took some effort to excavate this book from the back of the closet.
If I record anything for episode 1 of the challenge it will be "licks influenced by lick 1". I don't think there's any way I can nail this by the deadline. The notes aren't bad to hit, but I don't "feel it" at all. But, I've still got a week plus to work on it. We'll see how it goes.
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Post by bluesbruce on Apr 17, 2020 6:14:44 GMT -6
I took my first real shot at this lick Thursday. The challenge with this lick is getting the friggin' timing right. The count-in is 4 beats, but the lick starts on beat 2 of the next measure. (I think Grampa mentioned this). That keeps throwing me off and then there's the ... never mind I'm just frustrated. Why the hell weren't these licks demonstrated over a backing track? At least they could have left the metronome running. I can't get the feel of this damn lick. OK, I'm done complaining. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. I guess I'll have to listen to Bruce's Guitar Pro recording about a 100 times and see if I can get this. I have basically the same "complaints". For "Lick 1" in a collection, it's pretty advanced, and the tempo is too fast for me to count those 16th-notes properly. I guess now I remember why it took some effort to excavate this book from the back of the closet.
If I record anything for episode 1 of the challenge it will be "licks influenced by lick 1". I don't think there's any way I can nail this by the deadline. The notes aren't bad to hit, but I don't "feel it" at all. But, I've still got a week plus to work on it. We'll see how it goes.
I share everyone's initial critiques of this book - that the licks should have been recorded over the backing track or at the very least with a metronome count throughout. I also agree that for "Lick 1", the timing of this is a bear. Just scanning over Licks 2-5 on the same page, they all have a note played squarely on the first beat of each measure, and there appear to be less sixteenth notes. I've always had a tough time counting 16th notes in 12/8 time, and have never really heard a good explanation of how to count these. Again, everyone needs to take this at their own level - recording slowed down versions is perfectly acceptable, even encouraged. Recording part of the lick is perfectly acceptable (the first bar or first two bars). Recording an altered version is perfectly acceptable. Please everyone keep the spirit of this thing as trying to improve our vocabulary of blues licks and phrases over time and hopefully having some fun with it (rather than frustration).
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Post by Phil on Apr 17, 2020 9:02:48 GMT -6
Bruce, you're going to have to change your screen name to "The Coach".
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