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Post by joachim on Feb 6, 2015 15:38:07 GMT -6
I am looking at the exercise in on page 67, and being a complete ignorant on these matters, I wondered if you guys could clarify something for me.
I reason as follows: We're using the A major scale A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A.
In the first measure the following notes are played: C#, A, B, G, A, F#, G, E.
1) The first pair (C#,A) form an interval of six,
2) The second pair (B,G) isn't an interval of six is it? The staff for G is also has a natural.
3) The third pair (A,F#) is an interval of six.
4) Again, the fourth pair (G,E) again isn't an interval of six, is it?
I suppose that G instead of G# is being used because of the minor pentatonic scale, but then intervals including G aren't really sixes, are they?
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Post by blackcountrymick on Feb 6, 2015 16:35:59 GMT -6
Joachim, I may be wrong here but the way I read it is that the intervals are 6ths of the implied 7th chord. The 7th note of the Amaj scale is flattened to imply the A7 chord, therefore a G instead of a G# is played. If a G# was played it would be an exercise in the sixths of Amaj chord.
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Post by Phil on Feb 6, 2015 19:27:21 GMT -6
Joachim, I've been learning bits ans pieces of basic theory for about the past year. I do see that ALL of the notes are chord notes. But, I'm thoroughly confused about the 2nd and 4th pairs beings 6ths in the "G" major scale when we are dealing with the "A' scale. We are obviously missing something. I'm sure John G. or someone else well versed in music theory could explain this. I'm very interested in the answer. C# A = 3rd and 1st of an "A" chord.They are an interval of a 6th apart in "A' major scale - A B C# D E F# G A. B G = 9th and b7th of an "A 9". They are an interval of a 6th in the "G" major scale - G A B C D E F# G A F# = 1st and 13th of an "A 13". They are an interval of a 6th apart "A" major scale - A B C# D E F# G A G E = b7th and 5th of an "A 7". They are an interval of a 6th in the "G" major scale - G A B C D E F# G My head hurts from trying to figure this out.  |
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Post by Phil on Feb 6, 2015 20:01:42 GMT -6
Joachim, The answer just hit me while I was in the shower taking a break from this!!! Mick's post got me thinking about the b7 and A7 being a dominant chord. The scale built on a dominant chord is the mixolydian scale. A7 is the dominant chord of "D" major scale. If you build a scale from the 5th degree of "D" you get - A B C# D E F# G A - which is the "A" major scale with a flat 7th which, in turn, is the "A" mixolydian scale. Using the "A" mixolydian scale, B to G and G to E are each 6 intervals apart making them 6's in the mixolydian scale. I hope this is the correct answer or my head is going to explode.  |
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Post by joachim on Feb 7, 2015 2:50:38 GMT -6
Mick and Phil, thanks - I am sure you are right.
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Post by Phil on Feb 7, 2015 4:12:43 GMT -6
Joachim,
You seem to have an interest in music theory, so I thought you might enjoy this video I saw the other night. It is the most fascinating presentation of music I've ever seen. You will learn things about the pentatonic scale that I guarantee you did not know before. It is also very entertaining. It's not an academic presentation. After watching this I'm hooked and will have to watch this guy's other videos.
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Post by bluesbruce on Feb 7, 2015 7:50:28 GMT -6
I may be off base here, and I certainly don't claim to be any music theory expert, but I thought intervals were defined entirely by the number of half-steps between two notes. Two notes 8 half-steps (or eight frets on the guitar) apart form an interval of a minor 6th. Two notes 9 half-steps (or 9 frets) apart form an interval of a major 6th. Scales and chords don't enter into defining intervals, in my understanding.
Bruce
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Post by Phil on Feb 7, 2015 8:55:50 GMT -6
Joachim, let me try this: Let's see... if you diatonically harmonize a major scale in thirds, you'll come up with this sequence: 3, b3, b3, 3, 3, b3, b3 (3, octave) Now, if you harmonize a major scale in 6ths, you are actually looking at inversions of those 3rds, so you'll com up with this sequence: 6, 6, b6, 6, 6, b6, b6 (6, octave) The harmonical rule is, when an interval is inverted, major intervals become minor (and vice versa)... as the major scale is the 'parent' scale of the modal scales, the order of the 3rds andths shifts if you start to harmonize from another step of the scale. Let's say you start to harmonize from the 5th degree of the scale (in the case of the key of C this would be G, the 'mixolydian mode, if you will): 3, b3, b3, 3, b3, b3, 3 (3, octave) 6, b6, b6, 6, 6, b6, 6 (6, octave) Both intervals determine whether a chord is major or minor and therefore can be (and are) used as replacements... I hope that helps and I didn't mess anything up typing this... and I pray I'm correct about it. Maybe you better should've googled it...  ![]() ![]() Or you could jsimply use the mixolydian scale from which the dominant chord is derived.  I think I just out smart-assed you.  |
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Post by Phil on Feb 7, 2015 9:13:33 GMT -6
I may be off base here, and I certainly don't claim to be any music theory expert, but I thought intervals were defined entirely by the number of half-steps between two notes. Two notes 8 half-steps (or eight frets on the guitar) apart form an interval of a minor 6th. Two notes 9 half-steps (or 9 frets) apart form an interval of a major 6th. Scales and chords don't enter into defining intervals, in my understanding. Bruce Bruce, You get the award for simplifying this! After carefully thinking through what you wrote you are absolutely correct. The scale or chord has no bearing whatsoever on the distance between 2 notes. B and a E are a 6th apart no matter what as are an A and a F#. Thanks for weighing in on this. |
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Post by Phil on Feb 7, 2015 9:16:07 GMT -6
I think I just out smart-assed you. Bruce just out smarted us all by simplifying things. |
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Post by Phil on Feb 7, 2015 10:00:21 GMT -6
That's right - but it's important it's good understand which intervals are relevant in the context of a scale or a chord, though. However, if playing an interval which is outside of a key is your choice, that's okay, of course (it's a matter of taste, anyway, but I guess it should be stylistically 'correct')... Come on, T-Bone, admit that Bruce gave the most logical, concise explanation. Bruce shaves with Occam's razor. |
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Post by jack1982 on Feb 7, 2015 10:29:27 GMT -6
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Post by Phil on Feb 7, 2015 15:24:59 GMT -6
You probably would if I hadn't over-thought and unnecessarily complicated something simple. |
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Post by jack1982 on Feb 8, 2015 9:17:24 GMT -6
No Phil, I understood what you were talking about, it's the harmonizing in sixths thing that may as well be quantum physics as far as my little brain is concerned lol.
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Post by bluesbruce on Feb 8, 2015 21:01:36 GMT -6
A bunny with a waffle on it's head? Wow guys, I was really just tryin' to be helpful and look what I've incited. I'll try to tone down my music theory musings...
Bruce
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Post by jack1982 on Feb 9, 2015 6:49:49 GMT -6
Your explanation was awesome Bruce, please don't tone down anything  |
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Post by jack1982 on Feb 10, 2015 6:15:18 GMT -6
No Phil, I understood what you were talking about, it's the harmonizing in sixths thing that may as well be quantum physics as far as my little brain is concerned lol. That one is on me - sorry! No reason to be sorry Tbone, it was just beyond my level of knowledge. And if I wasn't so darned lazy it would probably be a good idea for me to look it up and learn about it |
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Post by joachim on Sept 12, 2015 11:10:28 GMT -6
I am looking at the exercise in on page 67, and being a complete ignorant on these matters, I wondered if you guys could clarify something for me. I reason as follows: We're using the A major scale A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A. In the first measure the following notes are played: C#, A, B, G, A, F#, G, E. 1) The first pair (C#,A) form an interval of six, 2) The second pair (B,G) isn't an interval of six is it? The staff for G is also has a natural. 3) The third pair (A,F#) is an interval of six. 4) Again, the fourth pair (G,E) again isn't an interval of six, is it? I suppose that G instead of G# is being used because of the minor pentatonic scale, but then intervals including G aren't really sixes, are they? Actually this still puzzles me - I revisited this exercise since I am looking at an easy blues play-along by Jimmy Reed, which includes lots of similar ideas. Reading through the answers to this thread, I couldn't reach a conclusion. I get the point that 1-b7 suggests a Dom7 chord as John G. writes in the exercise. So I think that would be a minor sixth interval as Mick also pointed out, but there are also major sixths in the exercise. How do you think of an interval of sixths - just 1-b7? |
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Post by jack1982 on Sept 12, 2015 11:34:51 GMT -6
Check out lesson 7 in the R&B book, which refers you back to lesson 5. The 6ths come from the chord (the top and bottom notes of the various triad inversions of that chord) and he's also adding in passing chords, which would be the IV chord if you think of the original chord as the I chord. So if you've got an A7 chord like on page 67 of BYCU, some of those notes are apparently coming from the D7 chord. I think...maybe |
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