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Post by wannaplayblues on Aug 11, 2014 3:05:06 GMT -6
I like to have my guitar setup once a year, and it's due again in October. Thing is - how do I know if I'm getting a good job done?!? It feels so hit-and-miss as to whether I'm going to a place that will take care of my Strat. And how do I know if I'm getting a good setup?!? What is a *good* action height for playing?
Seeing as I cannot make the changes myself - I don't know if raising/lowering the action would be beneficial to my playing.
I also have the default plastic nut on my guitar, but am toying with the idea of having the Fender LSR Nut installed (http://www.fender.com/en-GB/guitar-bass-parts/string-guides-nuts/lsr-roller-nut-assembly-brushed-chrome/) but again, I'm scared to death that the person I take it to will screw up my guitar...
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Post by Phil on Aug 11, 2014 7:54:55 GMT -6
I'd get on various forums, tell people the area you live in, and ask for recommendations. This is like finding a good mechanic or dentist - you have to ask around or find out for yourself the hard way.
I just got Dan Erlewine's book, "How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great." Even if you don't intend to do the work yourself, there's a lot of good info in this book. I learned a lot of stuff I never knew about electric guitars.
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Post by jack1982 on Aug 11, 2014 10:00:51 GMT -6
Setting up a guitar is always a compromise between ease of playability vs. how much fret buzz you're willing to tolerate - you can set the action really low and it will be really easy to play, but you'll get a lot of fret buzz. That's great for heavy metal shredders as all the distortion masks the buzz and they don't do much bending anyways. But for blues where you're not using as much distortion and you're doing a lot of bends, fret buzz can really ruin your sound so you have to raise it a little higher. Some guys like it even higher yet as it makes the strings easier to "grab" when you do bends. So it's pretty much down to personal preference. I just watched some Youtube videos and learned how to do most of that stuff myself. That way you can play for a bit, tweak it, play, tweak, etc. until you've got it just the way you want it for the type of music you play and the way you play it. And it's a lot cheaper that way too  As far as those roller nuts, they're designed to eliminate any friction between the string and the nut, so the string doesn't get caught in the slot and go out of tune. They're mostly for guys who use the tremolo a lot, as when you do a dive bomb the strings will move towards the tuning pegs and when you raise it back up they have to return to their original position. If you're not having problems with that, I wouldn't bother (Unless you want one anyways of course ). The main thing with the nut when you get your guitar set up is to make sure the slots are cut deep enough so the strings are at the proper height. If you've had it set up before they've probably done that, but it wouldn't hurt to ask to make sure. Bone nuts are generally considered better for tone than the plastic nuts that come on a lot of guitars - if you want a new one you might consider getting one of those. |
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tuch
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Post by tuch on Aug 11, 2014 20:53:51 GMT -6
Gtr Set up=To cater & "tailor" the gtr to now suit the players personal preferences/playing style.(1)The string height at the nut(String slots) accurately made lower in there depth,(filed) as low as possible (without buzzing occurring !) & (2) then adjusting the saddle(s) to the preferred height etc =(final string height(s))found.. to now suit the comfort required for the fret fingers=Every player IS unique=So is the set up(End result)= The aim=Buzz free(When AMPLIFIED) & allowing ease of fretting/forming chord shapes etc & to facilitate easier execution of solo note playing at any fret.The difference between an electric gtr's set up(Which can buzz a little & be tolerated by some,when UN AMPLIFIED) The acoustic gtr NOT SO!
Any uneven fret height will cause fret buzz.To ELIMINATE fret buzz=The frets have to be made equal in their height by Leveling(via a Beam that spans all the frets. or A Stone(Fine grade).After which,the now leveled frets will have Flat fret tops,to be made curved again via a Crowning file.To finish polish the frets.The string slots at the nut,made lower via a nut file.& The saddles now adjusted(lowered to suit.The(Tension) rod adjusted correctly,.. to now allow the strings to vibrate without hindrance.The strings at pitch exert there tension upon the neck trying to make it curve in 1 direction (UP BOW).The Rod when set,counter acts this,..holds at tension.Tightening the rod creates the neck to form a BACK BOW.But,releasing it slightly,the neck will now curve more upward (An UP BOW)under string tension etc.Termed "RELIEF".thus allowing more clearance between the strings & fret top(s).
One can DIY it(learn how) or pay a luthier to do it.The GUITAR REPAIR GUIDE by Erlwine explains the set up & more,but not the procedure entailed.HOW TO MAKE an electric gtr by Hiscox does explain more in detail+pics,the steps for the set up procedure & application !(recommended)
All new gtr are deliberately left with a med/high pre radiused nut.To then facilitate lowering the string slot depths in the future=Lowers the string height affecting fret 1-approx fret 5 only.but not the other frets.lowering the saddles now affects fret 5-last fret.The string height overall is now affected(made lower)
All The frets after installation,have to be L & C'ied(made equal in there height!)but,.. if inaccuracy (by a Thou"+)made at the Leveling stage by the factory luthier and then left unseen,the saddles now adjusted/lowered.& any error(s)made at the nut(String slot depth(s)plus unequal fret height will result in fret buzz.
Wear & tear upon the frets over time will cause worsening fret buzz.The frets should then be leveled lightly to eradicate this.3-4 fret Levels is not uncommon,..before a re fret recommendation etc.
The nut renewed & its slots now lowered to depth accurately,the frets leveled accurately,eliminating fret buzz.
If you have strong fret fingers,then a med/high action may suit.If a weaker fret finger strength,then lowering the string height will be beneficial.& dramatically felt too.By trial & error one now finds the string height at the saddles to cater for the fret fingers,there weaknesses/strength.
The unique set up that now suits should then be problem free/easily attained.All new gtrs are not adjusted,nor can be customized to suit everyone.Its up to the "Purchaser" to now tailor it to suit his personal preferences etc./or find a luthier to do it (lower the string slots.Level the frets accurately)...on their behalf.All the player then has to do is now raise/lower (adjust)the saddle height etc.it should be problem free then! Additional cost to the purchaser but 2 options open DIY IT(Get the hiscox book) etc..or find a luthier who can do it accurately.
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Post by wannaplayblues on Aug 13, 2014 9:41:44 GMT -6
Was looking closely at the frets today - I can actually see they've been getting work down toward the 12th fret...
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Post by Phil on Aug 13, 2014 13:44:34 GMT -6
Was looking closely at the frets today - I can actually see they've been getting work down toward the 12th fret... Re-read Mr. Tuch's post - you won't be able to see anything. |
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Post by blackcountrymick on Aug 13, 2014 16:10:55 GMT -6
Gtr Set up=To cater & "tailor" the gtr to now suit the players personal preferences/playing style.(1)The string height at the nut(String slots) accurately made lower in there depth,(filed) as low as possible (without buzzing occurring !) & (2) then adjusting the saddle(s) to the preferred height etc =(final string height(s))found.. to now suit the comfort required for the fret fingers=Every player IS unique=So is the set up(End result)= The aim=Buzz free(When AMPLIFIED) & allowing ease of fretting/forming chord shapes etc & to facilitate easier execution of solo note playing at any fret.The difference between an electric gtr's set up(Which can buzz a little & be tolerated by some,when UN AMPLIFIED) The acoustic gtr NOT SO! Any uneven fret height will cause fret buzz.To ELIMINATE fret buzz=The frets have to be made equal in their height by Leveling(via a Beam that spans all the frets. or A Stone(Fine grade).After which,the now leveled frets will have Flat fret tops,to be made curved again via a Crowning file.To finish polish the frets.The string slots at the nut,made lower via a nut file.& The saddles now adjusted(lowered to suit.The(Tension) rod adjusted correctly,.. to now allow the strings to vibrate without hindrance.The strings at pitch exert there tension upon the neck trying to make it curve in 1 direction (UP BOW).The Rod when set,counter acts this,..holds at tension.Tightening the rod creates the neck to form a BACK BOW.But,releasing it slightly,the neck will now curve more upward (An UP BOW)under string tension etc.Termed "RELIEF".thus allowing more clearance between the strings & fret top(s). One can DIY it(learn how) or pay a luthier to do it.The GUITAR REPAIR GUIDE by Erlwine explains the set up & more,but not the procedure entailed.HOW TO MAKE an electric gtr by Hiscox does explain more in detail+pics,the steps for the set up procedure & application !(recommended) All new gtr are deliberately left with a med/high pre radiused nut.To then facilitate lowering the string slot depths in the future=Lowers the string height affecting fret 1-approx fret 5 only.but not the other frets.lowering the saddles now affects fret 5-last fret.The string height overall is now affected(made lower) All The frets after installation,have to be L & C'ied(made equal in there height!)but,.. if inaccuracy (by a Thou"+)made at the Leveling stage by the factory luthier and then left unseen,the saddles now adjusted/lowered.& any error(s)made at the nut(String slot depth(s)plus unequal fret height will result in fret buzz. Wear & tear upon the frets over time will cause worsening fret buzz.The frets should then be leveled lightly to eradicate this.3-4 fret Levels is not uncommon,..before a re fret recommendation etc. The nut renewed & its slots now lowered to depth accurately,the frets leveled accurately,eliminating fret buzz. If you have strong fret fingers,then a med/high action may suit.If a weaker fret finger strength,then lowering the string height will be beneficial.& dramatically felt too.By trial & error one now finds the string height at the saddles to cater for the fret fingers,there weaknesses/strength. The unique set up that now suits should then be problem free/easily attained.All new gtrs are not adjusted,nor can be customized to suit everyone.Its up to the "Purchaser" to now tailor it to suit his personal preferences etc./or find a luthier to do it (lower the string slots.Level the frets accurately)...on their behalf.All the player then has to do is now raise/lower (adjust)the saddle height etc.it should be problem free then! Additional cost to the purchaser but 2 options open DIY IT(Get the hiscox book) etc..or find a luthier who can do it accurately. I haven't drunk enough ale to be able to understand this!!! |
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tuch
New Member
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Post by tuch on Aug 13, 2014 17:58:20 GMT -6
Black countrymick-Every guitar needs to be set up(1) either get someone (A Pros Shop LUTHIER-who knows How to do it & assist ,or (2)DIY it-But its very beneficial to the player himself,..to know what a set up entails anyway (GET the 2 books mentioned)..so as to be able to inform the "Luthier" what you want.Be specific EG: I want the action..the string height made lower.But it BUZZES when i try to do it.That tells him to ASSESS the frets..& the string slot depths & to assess the neck too;He knows then what to specifically focus upon( examine etc )& if need be INFORM you of what needs to now be done to then attain the best set up that now can be tailored to suit you.Before commencing.PLAY your guitar in front of him so he can assess your playing style.Do you play with a LIGHT ATTACK(heavy aggressive plectrum hand)..or a light Attack.(A lighter,softer plectrum hand etc-THIS tells him a lot.,in regard to the set up that may suit YOU.Instruct him accordingly-He must look/find & rectify any faults... before the final set up proceeds.If no faults found (RARE) etc then he can now adjust the neck & string height & adjust the rod accordingly etc that now tailors to your unique "Playing Style" & every player is UNIQUE.=Get the books & then you will understand the adjustments (Required) to make (your) guitar easier to play!The books help you source & resolve Faults-Or at least understand them (WHY?they can/do occur.) If you have tried to(Naively) adjust it.TELL HIM.That's informative too.If the gtr straight out of the box was fine,but now it buzzes or feels problematic...then either it needs adjustment,or or it was incorrectly set up from the start.(Many are!)& some errors unseen before,.. now arise when the gtr is now being fine tuned to suit you etc.If the gtrs ACTION is made to be problem free at its lowest string height,then to raise the action higher..should also be problem free.To suit all types of guitarists.
EG:But if the frets have an error of a THOU"-Buzzes will occur & worsen,unless rectified.EG:A low string slot may be the cause for the "Buzz".=Replace the nut.Re cut the slots correctly & precisely..to there lowest depths etc..Problem rectified.If the Rod is incorrectly set..The neck Back bows-This affects the set up & string height & FRET WEAR..if it Up bows..This affects the string height The (action) too. Rectified by correct adjustment of the Tension rod.Learn how to DIY it(from the books) or get a Luthier to now assess & then rectify etc.
The Action(String height) on a gtr might suit 1 guy..but it may not suit another=A set up is to cater for the players preferences..His uniqueness.His fret fingers,there strength & weaknesses(again uniqueness here too)....affects the final set up.No 2 players or guitars are alike.=Differeng set ups required etc.
Why "Fight" the strings,when it can be altered to suit etc = The set up.Shops just SELL guitars as is.its now down to the purchaser to set it up to suit himself etc /or a luthier to do it etc.If you know how too, but lack the confidence/& skill to do it,etc then at least the books will still be informative here.You can then tell (him) what you want more specifically.& understand the rectification required also,.. to enable him to achieve the set up that now suits you.But (If) any faults found,they must first be rectified to then achieve the final set up.Hic
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tuch
New Member
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Post by tuch on Aug 13, 2014 20:15:13 GMT -6
Was looking closely at the frets today - I can actually see they've been getting work down toward the 12th fret... Re-read Mr. Tuch's post - you won't be able to see anything. Frets are left curved.Its center..is the point were the underside of the string now contacts the fret top - The string moves (oscillates) up/down & Side to side!..Its vibrations contributing over time to wear upon the fret Crown.Its Crown,its top now made flatter.The string makes contact here with the center line of the fret etc thus further flattening occurs over time etc.Wearing the frets down.(Altering its height & its center width) :Eventually-FRET BUZZ will occur.The "flat" too now becomes more visibly apparent/the buzz more audible & annoying.If left,instead of a "light dressing of the frets"-Which removes as little fret material as possible when made Level,thus now leaving ALL the frets EQUAL in there height,but a small "Flat" now remains,after the initial leveling procedure etc..The fret(s) are then now Crowned(leaving the typical rounded fret top.The now familiar curved fret tops are now polished & left smooth-fret buzz now rectified. If the flat is now left to worsen,then to rectify now,the frets must then be leveled more (More fret material now removed than a light skim ) to again Equalize all the frets in their height etc.& then Crowned to finish.Crowning procedure does not reduce the frets height,it just re shapes it into a curve but a thin(Hairline) bead line must deliberately be left at the center of the fret.This hair line now deliberately left, is the frets actual height !,at its center.The fret(s) are now polished.The hairline is now made invisible to the eye,but its there!to remove it,to continue to file via the Crowning file,removing the bead line..lowers the fret height.Which one must avoid=If the crowning process is continued,uneven fret height now remains again. The strings underside contacts the fret & over use(Time)..the fret wear now occurs (unavoidable) & now becomes visible.The Flattening now continues,eventually fret buzz occurs= uneven fret height.The frets can be L & C'ed a few times before they are left too low in there height to allow string fretting to be comfortable..Not enough height= Re FRET Time.New frets are L & Cied lightly skimmed(Dressed) to make equal in height etc.for some,Stainless Steel frets are now the option(Harder wearing)=Less fret wear now occurs because of etc.(But the "TONE" changes slightly.)..SS frets are more "metallic" in nature.Long lasting.when installed=less L & C'ing needs to be done over time unlike.. the nickel silver frets(softer metal here)installed in many guitars.SS fret wire takes much longer to wear flats & Divots in the fret wire ."Divots" small "V" shaped grooves can also be a symptom of a string slot at the nut,being cut too low in its depth.Seen at the nut area.fret1 to approx fret 7.Or even... be a visible sign the neck curves back (Back bowed ) neck.A Straight edge used here assesses for this.if found to be the case,then a rod adjustment is made here,to eliminate a back bowed neck.To increase (Relief) -in reference to increasing the distance between underside of the string & fret contact.)=Loosen the rod a fraction,increases the "Relief".Allows the neck to now curve a little more because of the strings (tension) pulling the neck into a curvature.Gives more string clearance.The rod(The "TENSION" rod)..when set(Adjusted),holds at tension..counter acting the strings pull.Fret wear,& "Divots" seen,can be symptoms to be aware of & are eradicated by L & C 'ing All the the frets.But only after the neck is 1st made to be straight.Only after which,can the procedure to L & C' frets proceed.Strings then attached/tuned to pitch.String slot heights assessed.(Cut lower if need be)saddle height adjusted.The rod now adjusted to inc/decrease the Relief accordingly .The 2 books mentioned will explain this.That is why..wether you DIY it,or allow another(Luthier) to do it instead ,the understanding of the procedures to set up a gtr etc is paramount to know.It benefits the player who Diy's or not.It helps you to become a better player too & or to find a good luthier to do what IS required ACCURATELY..to get the best out of your gtr.Since you may rely upon him 100% for everything in the future.setting up every gtr you may possibly purchase / use.to fit like a glove!Aquire the books.they are "informative".same as BYCU books are informative regardless. |
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Post by Phil on Aug 14, 2014 2:15:02 GMT -6
Tuch,
I'm sure there are gold nuggets of information in your posts. However, few people are ever going to find them because you posts are so difficult to read. If you want people to read and understand your posts you have to write using short paragraphs with lots of space. On a computer screen it's not comfortable to read long block posts with no spaces. The posts should also be directly related to the thread, specific, and relatively short.
These are just suggestions. I think you have some interesting information to share, but it's getting lost in the forest of words.
Phil
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Post by GnLguy on Aug 14, 2014 15:29:37 GMT -6
I like to have my guitar setup once a year, and it's due again in October. Thing is - how do I know if I'm getting a good job done?!? It feels so hit-and-miss as to whether I'm going to a place that will take care of my Strat. And how do I know if I'm getting a good setup?!? What is a *good* action height for playing? Seeing as I cannot make the changes myself - I don't know if raising/lowering the action would be beneficial to my playing. I also have the default plastic nut on my guitar, but am toying with the idea of having the Fender LSR Nut installed (http://www.fender.com/en-GB/guitar-bass-parts/string-guides-nuts/lsr-roller-nut-assembly-brushed-chrome/) but again, I'm scared to death that the person I take it to will screw up my guitar...
Unless a guitar is getting a lot of use, if you are changing to a different guage of string (by at least 0.002" - for example, 008s to 010s), noisy pots or if you start having problems like fret buzz, why go to this extent and expense? I would second the advice to get Dan Erlewine's book How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great; read, study and when you find a problem after learning from Dan, then take it in for a set up.
My dad gave me some great advise many years ago that I've found to be true in various arenas of life - if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Saves a lot of money and removes the chance of a repair/setup being done incorrectly.
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