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Post by jack1982 on Jun 8, 2014 14:30:25 GMT -6
I'm utterly clueless when it comes to jazz. Am I even playing on the right beat? Those chords in the lead line sound like they're hanging out in the middle of nowhere lol. Anyhow let me know what you think. soundcloud.com/jack-c8/old-time-blues |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 8, 2014 14:46:11 GMT -6
I'm utterly clueless when it comes to jazz. Am I even playing on the right beat? Those chords in the lead line sound like they're hanging out in the middle of nowhere lol. Anyhow let me know what you think. soundcloud.com/jack-c8/old-time-bluesWow, Jack - first off the tone is good, all the notes played very cleanly...but... Your drum track sounds straight (even), not swing. Jazz swings hard. You need to get the CD out and listen to the rhythm track (the one without the lead). This is a triplet rhythm, with the beat stressed on beats 2 and 4. The strum is a quarter note strum, but listen to the accent on beats 2 & 4. I've heard this pattern described as "strum chunk, strum chunk", where the "chunk" is a stressed and shortened strum on beats 2 & 4. Then you need to get a swing rhythm going on your drum machine. I hope that makes some sense, if not ask some questions - you've got to get the swing rhythm going. I've got confidence in you though. Man, with the way you're tearing these up, you'll be "Jazzin' The Blues" in no time at all. Bruce |
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 8, 2014 15:54:35 GMT -6
Thanks so much Bruce! It's funny because I had the "swing" on that drum line up as high as it would go at one time, but then thought "no that's too much" and turned it back down LOL. That's some great information about swing rhythms you gave me, I'll try and get that sorted out for the next recording I do and study the CD track and try to learn from it. Thanks for clueing me in, I don't really listen to this type of jazz (I'm mostly into smooth jazz) and that's exactly the sort of feedback I need  |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 8, 2014 16:57:13 GMT -6
How about this:
Strum(1) - and - a - CHUNK(2) - and -a - strum(3) - and - a - CHUNK(4) - and - a -
the "and" in these is usually left out, leaving the classic "swing" type rhythm. It (the "and") can be included, though, giving you: trip(1)-a-let-trip(2)-a-let-trip(3)-a-let-trip(4)-a-let.
It's kind of hard to explain rhythm in writing. Maybe you should just try to record the drums and rhythm guitar part for us, then you can go back and put the lead on top of it once we get it straightened out. Do you have any Charlie Christian recordings?
Bruce
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Post by TommyD on Jun 8, 2014 17:20:21 GMT -6
Great information, Bruce. This is what I really like, and appreciate, about this forum. Everyone is respectful, kind, helpful, and encouraging.
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 8, 2014 17:21:19 GMT -6
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 8, 2014 18:44:33 GMT -6
That's it, Jack! Beautiful! Do you appreciate the difference in this drum and rhythm guitar from that first post you did of this? And, now, the lead is played "swing", too. You did swing the lead more (more than the drums or rhythm guitar) in your first recording of this, but now all you gotta do is record your lead over this rhythm. What's that old saying? Play a man a swing and he's jazzin' for a day, TEACH a man to swing, and he's jazzin' the rest of his life... or maybe that had to do with fishin'? Jack, you da man! Bruce  |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 8, 2014 18:48:50 GMT -6
Great information, Bruce. This is what I really like, and appreciate, about this forum. Everyone is respectful, kind, helpful, and encouraging. Thanks, Tommy. This is all intended in that spirit, and I hope it's taken that way - I do not at all intend to put Jack, or anyone else, down. I'm not any pro or "guitar star" of anything, just trying to share what knowledge I've gained from others and help others along a pathway I've had to go down. I certainly hope we can hold on to that spirit on this forum. Bruce |
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 8, 2014 19:20:06 GMT -6
Thanks Bruce! I think what screwed me up with my first recording was A) a total lack of knowledge about jazz and B) very timid playing because of it. I really appreciate the advice, that's what great about these forums - we can all share our knowledge with each other and all become better players because of it. And don't ever worry about me taking offense at anything, I'd much rather become a better player because people told me what I was doing wrong rather than keep making the same mistakes because nobody told me about them. I'll re-do the lead part tomorrow and work on putting a good swing feeling on that as well. |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 8, 2014 19:48:10 GMT -6
Thanks Bruce! I think what screwed me up with my first recording was A) a total lack of knowledge about jazz and B) very timid playing because of it. I really appreciate the advice, that's what great about these forums - we can all share our knowledge with each other and all become better players because of it. And don't ever worry about me taking offense at anything, I'd much rather become a better player because people told me what I was doing wrong rather than keep making the same mistakes because nobody told me about them. I'll re-do the lead part tomorrow and work on putting a good swing feeling on that as well. You're welcome, Jack. I'm looking forward to hearing the re-do. It's funny - I've LISTENED to lots of different music for a long time (including my own feeble efforts), and I find I can often HEAR problems, even if I can't PLAY it any better myself. I hope you can HEAR that rhythm and learn to FEEL it so you don't even have to think about it. You WILL become a better player as a result of it. Bruce |
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Post by Phil on Jun 8, 2014 21:40:57 GMT -6
... And don't ever worry about me taking offense at anything, I'd much rather become a better player because people told me what I was doing wrong rather than keep making the same mistakes because nobody told me about them. ... Jack, That's the right attitude to have. You are absolutely correct - if nobody points out the errors it is impossible to correct them. It's tough on the old ego when you post something that you are proud of and then somebody points out the flaws, but we have to be careful not to become a mutual admiration society. That will help our fragile egos, but will definitely hurt our playing progress. Bruce has got a good ear for this stuff and is not afraid to call it as he sees it. Phil |
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 9, 2014 4:41:05 GMT -6
Bruce, yeah I found this video that demonstrates the difference between straight time and swing - Like you said, it's much easier to hear it than to describe it in words But this style is still very new to me and I'm sure I'll screw up numerous times in the future LOL. But at least I'm on the right track now, and thank you very much for that! I'll hopefully get that lead line re-recorded this afternoon. Phil, you're exactly right; I remember when I posted my first song here, Minor Blues, and of course I was pretty proud of it but then everybody told me my bends needed work. Sure the ol' ego took a hit but since then I've been working on incorporating a lot more bends into my improvising - in fact my improvising has become one big bending exercise - and although I've still got a TON of work to do in that area, the stuff I was playing yesterday was some of the most lyrical and expressive music I've ever played in my life. So, well worth the little ego hit. Also when I first started playing many years ago, my best friend had been playing guitar for ten years already, and he'd tell me stuff like "You are the speck of dust on my tidal wave" so needless to say my ego was always kept in check LOL. |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 9, 2014 6:26:14 GMT -6
"The speck of dust on my tidal wave"...sheesh. Life's too short for that kinda BS. I certainly hope that was tongue in cheek.
The video is a great demo of this concept. Hearing it probably helps way more than me trying to explain it in the forum.
Bruce
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 9, 2014 6:52:43 GMT -6
"The speck of dust on my tidal wave"...sheesh. Life's too short for that kinda BS. I certainly hope that was tongue in cheek. Yeah it was. Considering how horrible I sounded when I first started, he was probably far less critical of my playing that I deserved |
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 9, 2014 12:41:35 GMT -6
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Post by bluesbruce on Jun 9, 2014 16:41:46 GMT -6
Jack,
The rhythm feel of that recording is WAY improved over the first one. Nice job!
Bruce
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Post by TommyD on Jun 9, 2014 17:52:18 GMT -6
Definitely has swing!
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Post by jack1982 on Jun 10, 2014 4:21:45 GMT -6
Cool! I'll move on to the second song and try to refine this swinging stuff a bit more |
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Post by Phil on Jun 10, 2014 15:03:11 GMT -6
The new upload is definitely "swingsational".
Phil
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