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Post by cunningr on Mar 7, 2021 7:08:52 GMT -6
Well I guess I will kick off the update thread this week. Combo class was interesting after being away so long was a struggle we basically going over old material, Sweet Home Chicago was pretty good, and the Thrill is Gone was pretty good too, couldn't remember Caldonia, but have it cleaned up. In my follow class we reviewed some stuff but really mostly just took some time to jam over a slow blues which turned into a lesson on using double tones for soloing, not really double stops take chord tons from 4th and 2nd strings and 3rd and 1st strings and moving them around. Not sure what you call it but sounds good. I have gotten through Funny Bone more or less in the attached sound cloud link is bout best I have done, I did do some production on the last section as I kept missing a note or 2 and recording the whole thing got cumbersome. soundcloud.com/alabama-blues/funny-bones-practice
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Post by bluesbruce on Mar 7, 2021 8:15:33 GMT -6
Sounding good, Rich. Thanks for sharing with us. I don't have much to report (and no music to share). My family has decided that dad is doing well enough that we don't feel we need someone to stay there 24/7, so life has gotten quite a bit less hectic. I've found a little more guitar time (which was zero there for a couple of weeks). Hope to get back to BLYCU and R&BYCU. Have also got sidetracked into some simple jazz standards ("First Jazz Standards" from Hal Leonard). These are aimed at someone new to solo jazz guitar, but NOT at a beginner guitarist. Been working with "Autumn Leaves", and now adding "Fly Me To The Moon".
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Post by jack1982 on Mar 7, 2021 8:17:48 GMT -6
That was some cool stuff Rich! Good playing, cool tune and great guitar tone I'm still pluggin' away at Hotel California. Was just practicing the intro at 70 BPM (full tempo is 74), it's pretty darned rough but I just keep chippin' away at it. You repeat the 8-bar intro 3 times (only the first bar changes each time), then it gets into some strumming. I'm just beginning to work on the strumming patterns for that. There's also a 6 string acoustic that comes in the second time through, it compliments the 12 string part until maybe the 3rd or 4th time through and then switches to a funky little line that doubles the bass sort of. That's "getting there" The solo is coming along pretty well, the "guitar 1" part is basically in the polishing up stages and "guitar 2" is getting close, just one quick little lick that I only "sort of" have up to full tempo lol. Been working on some of the cool little fills as well, those are all in the early stages. I decided not to get that DAW control surface thing I was talking about last week - they have a ton of features (only a few of which I'd use), and don't seem to have a lot of the features that I would use. And considering they're really expensive it just didn't seem worth it. I did get a Shubb capo for my 12 string though - only to decide I like my Kyser better
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Post by jack1982 on Mar 7, 2021 8:27:51 GMT -6
Bruce - good to hear your dad is doing better!
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Post by Phil on Mar 7, 2021 8:58:00 GMT -6
The big news from me this week is I recorded a video. Yes, you read that correctly. I actually came through on a promise to record a video and did it. I think I've developed some orthopedic problems in my shoulder from patting myself on the back so much since Thursday. This is for a group project on Frank Vignola's Truefire channel. I think there will be 8 to 12 participants moving in and out of 5 32-bar choruses of the Jazz standard, "Softly, As In A Morning Sunrise." The guy doing the video editing did an excellent job on the last one they did. Another guy is doing the audio. I don't know how they are able to do this, but the last one was seamless and the audio was great. I provided a melody chorus to harmonize with the main melody and a full 32-bar solo. I'm pretty sure they'll only use 8 bars of the solo. They have to let everyone have a little piece. When the video is complete I'll provide a link for anyone interested. T-Bone, I wish you were still there. I know you would have liked to have participated.
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Post by Phil on Mar 7, 2021 9:09:55 GMT -6
Well I guess I will kick off the update thread this week. Combo class was interesting after being away so long was a struggle we basically going over old material, Sweet Home Chicago was pretty good, and the Thrill is Gone was pretty good too, couldn't remember Caldonia, but have it cleaned up. In my follow class we reviewed some stuff but really mostly just took some time to jam over a slow blues which turned into a lesson on using double tones for soloing, not really double stops take chord tons from 4th and 2nd strings and 3rd and 1st strings and moving them around. Not sure what you call it but sounds good.I have gotten through Funny Bone more or less in the attached sound cloud link is bout best I have done, I did do some production on the last section as I kept missing a note or 2 and recording the whole thing got cumbersome. soundcloud.com/alabama-blues/funny-bones-practiceRich - sounding good on that recording. Is that a Freddie King song?
I think if you play 2 notes at a time it's still called a double stop even if the notes are on skipped strings. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that. Anyway, what you're playing are probably 6ths. Take a close look at the notes you're playing. They will be either a minor 6th or major 6th apart.
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Post by Phil on Mar 7, 2021 9:13:32 GMT -6
Jack - Hotel California must have like 27 guitars overdubbed. Looking forward to hearing your version. I'm sure it will sound great.
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Post by Phil on Mar 7, 2021 9:20:00 GMT -6
Bruce - glad to hear your father is doing better. Was it Covid related?
Happy to hear your working on some Jazz standards. I love "Fly Me to the Moon" but I keep putting off learning it. Something always comes up to distract me. If you look closely you'll see that "Autumn Leaves" and "Fly Me..." have the basically the same chord progression.
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Post by cunningr on Mar 7, 2021 9:27:03 GMT -6
Well I guess I will kick off the update thread this week. Combo class was interesting after being away so long was a struggle we basically going over old material, Sweet Home Chicago was pretty good, and the Thrill is Gone was pretty good too, couldn't remember Caldonia, but have it cleaned up. In my follow class we reviewed some stuff but really mostly just took some time to jam over a slow blues which turned into a lesson on using double tones for soloing, not really double stops take chord tons from 4th and 2nd strings and 3rd and 1st strings and moving them around. Not sure what you call it but sounds good.I have gotten through Funny Bone more or less in the attached sound cloud link is bout best I have done, I did do some production on the last section as I kept missing a note or 2 and recording the whole thing got cumbersome. soundcloud.com/alabama-blues/funny-bones-practiceRich - sounding good on that recording. Is that a Freddie King song?
I think if you play 2 notes at a time it's still called a double stop even if the notes are on skipped strings. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that. Anyway, what you're playing are probably 6ths. Take a close look at the notes you're playing. They will be either a minor 6th or major 6th apart.
That is Freddie King. I thought double stops were when you played those notes in triplets, I got lazy did count the note tones but I think your right.
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Post by jack1982 on Mar 7, 2021 9:28:10 GMT -6
Jack - Hotel California must have like 27 guitars overdubbed. Looking forward to hearing your version. I'm sure it will sound great. Looking forward to hearing your stuff too Phil! Oh man this Hotel California project is kind of overwhelming. 12 string throughout, 6 string comes and goes, I thought there were 2 electric guitars going on through most of the song but just noticed there's actually 3 (hopefully I can combine them into just two). Two parts for the solo, another guitar strumming muted strings throughout. Probably some more I'm forgetting about
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Post by Phil on Mar 7, 2021 10:23:23 GMT -6
Rich - sounding good on that recording. Is that a Freddie King song?
I think if you play 2 notes at a time it's still called a double stop even if the notes are on skipped strings. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that. Anyway, what you're playing are probably 6ths. Take a close look at the notes you're playing. They will be either a minor 6th or major 6th apart.
That is Freddie King. I thought double stops were when you played those notes in triplets, I got lazy did count the note tones but I think your right. Freddie King recorded more instrumental Blues songs than anyone. I think his producer thought it would expand his appeal beyond the diehard Blues fans.
"Double stop" simply means to stop (fret) 2 strings and play them simultaneously. I think it originated as a violin term. On a violin I think they'd have to be on adjacent strings to be playable.
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Post by cunningr on Mar 7, 2021 11:32:59 GMT -6
Hey Bruce, that's good to hear, man - all the best to you and to yours! Rich, godd to hear you play some FK! The king of kings... what a player! Did you already try your hands on Sidetracked or Hideaway? Another good one to work on is Heads up - lots to learn there! Great that you continue to play in a combo, you're walking the walk! Phil, let's hear it! That sounds a like a lot of fun! However, I'm not so sure I'd have participated... as I told just Jack and Mike the other day, these last few month really took their toll on me, all that home office, home schooling and home studying really exhausted me. If not for the collab with the guys, I probably wouldn't have found the motivation to play the guitar at all. It's getting better, though, and I hope I'll pay my dues soon... I'v got to partake in at least a few songs before Jack reissued the whole Rock catalogue on his own. Thanks! I started on side tracked then got side tracked working on funny bony bone. Lol
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Post by grampalerxst on Mar 7, 2021 14:35:57 GMT -6
Rich, sounded good. I'm not familiar with the original but you had a neat surfy tone and it was well played.
Bruce, glad to hear of your dad's improvement.
Week seemed to go by awfully fast for me with less guitar than I would have liked. Worked on the first 2 new ones for the BLYCU challenge. Bot are slow going so far.
This is the weekend for me to switch to a new scale sequence. Still amazes me how much trouble major scales cause me.
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Post by bluesbruce on Mar 7, 2021 16:00:38 GMT -6
Bruce - glad to hear your father is doing better. Was it Covid related? Happy to hear your working on some Jazz standards. I love "Fly Me to the Moon" but I keep putting off learning it. Something always comes up to distract me. If you look closely you'll see that "Autumn Leaves" and "Fly Me..." have the basically the same chord progression. Thanks, Phil (and everyone else). No, not Covid related. He had a stroke, and spent a week and a half in the hospital. He had just been in the hospital for congestive heart failure about a week before that, so he's had a pretty tough go the past several weeks. I had noticed the similar chord sequence progressions in those two songs. My music theory is not solid enough to classify these. I think both songs are actually in minor keys. In this book Autumn Leaves is presented with no sharps or flats (but I think it's in Am rather than C major) and Fly Me is presented with one sharp (and I was thinking it is in Em rather than G major). But there are chords in both that don't seem to fit a simple diatonic key classification. One measure in "Fly Me..." uses two beats of Em followed by two beats of E major! That's hard to reconcile with any key signature. I've heard this kind of thing explained that the key of the song actually changes, even though it is written out as if it's in one key. I'm going to try not to get too bogged down in theory to start with. Probably at some point I'll try to take on jazzing the blues again, and maybe try to pay more attention to some of the theory presented there.
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Post by Phil on Mar 7, 2021 21:33:49 GMT -6
Bruce - glad to hear your father is doing better. Was it Covid related? Happy to hear your working on some Jazz standards. I love "Fly Me to the Moon" but I keep putting off learning it. Something always comes up to distract me. If you look closely you'll see that "Autumn Leaves" and "Fly Me..." have the basically the same chord progression. Thanks, Phil (and everyone else). No, not Covid related. He had a stroke, and spent a week and a half in the hospital. He had just been in the hospital for congestive heart failure about a week before that, so he's had a pretty tough go the past several weeks. I had noticed the similar chord sequence progressions in those two songs. My music theory is not solid enough to classify these. I think both songs are actually in minor keys. In this book Autumn Leaves is presented with no sharps or flats (but I think it's in Am rather than C major) and Fly Me is presented with one sharp (and I was thinking it is in Em rather than G major). But there are chords in both that don't seem to fit a simple diatonic key classification. One measure in "Fly Me..." uses two beats of Em followed by two beats of E major! That's hard to reconcile with any key signature. I've heard this kind of thing explained that the key of the song actually changes, even though it is written out as if it's in one key. I'm going to try not to get too bogged down in theory to start with. Probably at some point I'll try to take on jazzing the blues again, and maybe try to pay more attention to some of the theory presented there. Bruce, Here's a great website to see the basic vanilla chords of almost any Jazz standard and usually in their original key: ralphpatt.com "Autumn Leaves" is considered to be in a minor key, usually Em or Gm. The relative major keys would be G major and Bb major respectively. Obviously, it can be played in any key but Em and Gm are the most common. The tip off is that it ends on a minor chord. "Fly Me to the Moon" is in a major key but starts on the vi minor. Again, the tip off is it ends on a major chord. This isn't a hard and fast rule. Just something I've noticed. One thing for sure is that you can't depend on the first chord to tell you the key and the key signature doesn't tell you if it's in a minor key. Put both songs in the same key and you'll see how similar the progressions are (a major ii V I then the IV chord followed by a minor ii V i (diatonically it's actually vii 7b5 - III7 - vi, but it's easier to see and talk about it as a minor ii V i to the vi-chord). The roots of all the chords in these 2 songs are diatonic. Most of the chords are also diatonic and go around the cycle of 4ths for the most part. What may be confusing you are the secondary dominants. What you're calling E major is probably E7 - big difference. If the next chord is an A or Am then it's definitely an E7 (the V7 of A). You can almost always precede any chord with its V chord. V-I is the strongest cadence in western music. The V7 chord pulls your ear towards the I-chord. Tension followed by resolution. I remember a time when you had to explain to me the difference between a minor 3rd interval and a major 3rd. I couldn't understand it until you explained it to me. You send me down this music theory rabbit hole.
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Post by bluesbruce on Mar 8, 2021 7:18:56 GMT -6
Bruce, Here's a great website to see the basic vanilla chords of almost any Jazz standard and usually in their original key: ralphpatt.com "Autumn Leaves" is considered to be in a minor key, usually Em or Gm. The relative major keys would be G major and Bb major respectively. Obviously, it can be played in any key but Em and Gm are the most common. The tip off is that it ends on a minor chord. "Fly Me to the Moon" is in a major key but starts on the vi minor. Again, the tip off is it ends on a major chord. This isn't a hard and fast rule. Just something I've noticed. One thing for sure is that you can't depend on the first chord to tell you the key and the key signature doesn't tell you if it's in a minor key. Put both songs in the same key and you'll see how similar the progressions are (a major ii V I then the IV chord followed by a minor ii V i (diatonically it's actually vii 7b5 - III7 - vi, but it's easier to see and talk about it as a minor ii V i to the vi-chord). The roots of all the chords in these 2 songs are diatonic. Most of the chords are also diatonic and go around the cycle of 4ths for the most part. What may be confusing you are the secondary dominants. What you're calling E major is probably E7 - big difference. If the next chord is an A or Am then it's definitely an E7 (the V7 of A). You can almost always precede any chord with its V chord. V-I is the strongest cadence in western music. The V7 chord pulls your ear towards the I-chord. Tension followed by resolution. I remember a time when you had to explain to me the difference between a minor 3rd interval and a major 3rd. I couldn't understand it until you explained it to me. You send me down this music theory rabbit hole. Phil, thanks for that explanation. Yes, the ii V I followed by the vii half dim - III - vi was what I was seeing in both songs - following the cycle of 4ths. But thinking of it as ii-V-I followed by another ii-V-I on the vi chord makes better sense. I was rather thrown off by a major III, which seemed like it didn't fit the key. The Em-Emaj measure IS followed by Am7, so probably should be Em-E7. This is the part where Sinatra sings "Jupiter and Mars. In other words.." (two beats Em on "Mars" , two beats E7 on "In"). I'll have to get out the guitar and strum through it. Recognizing keys will probably get better over time, but thanks for the tip about the ending chord. Obviously these songs have a little more harmonic complexity than your basic I-IV-V.
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Post by Phil on Mar 8, 2021 10:23:09 GMT -6
Recognizing keys will probably get better over time, but thanks for the tip about the ending chord. Obviously these songs have a little more harmonic complexity than your basic I-IV-V. It's probably more important to recognize commonly occurring progressions than it is to know what key the song is in. That might sound crazy, but sometimes Jazz tunes aren't even given a key signature because of all the key changes. The 1st thing I do when learning a new song is to label all the chords with Roman numerals. The various progressions then become obvious. Remember, chords don't occur in isolation. They are coming from somewhere, going somewhere, or both. They occur as part of a progression. Have fun. We probably should have had this discussion in the Jazz sub-forum. That way nobody would see it except us.
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Post by grampalerxst on Mar 10, 2021 15:38:13 GMT -6
Recognizing keys will probably get better over time, but thanks for the tip about the ending chord. Obviously these songs have a little more harmonic complexity than your basic I-IV-V. It's probably more important to recognize commonly occurring progressions than it is to know what key the song is in. That might sound crazy, but sometimes Jazz tunes aren't even given a key signature because of all the key changes. The 1st thing I do when learning a new song is to label all the chords with Roman numerals. The various progressions then become obvious. Remember, chords don't occur in isolation. They are coming from somewhere, going somewhere, or both. They occur as part of a progression. Have fun. We probably should have had this discussion in the Jazz sub-forum. That way nobody would see it except us. How do you assign the roman numerals without assuming a key?
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Post by Phil on Mar 10, 2021 20:32:05 GMT -6
It's probably more important to recognize commonly occurring progressions than it is to know what key the song is in. That might sound crazy, but sometimes Jazz tunes aren't even given a key signature because of all the key changes. The 1st thing I do when learning a new song is to label all the chords with Roman numerals. The various progressions then become obvious. Remember, chords don't occur in isolation. They are coming from somewhere, going somewhere, or both. They occur as part of a progression. Have fun. We probably should have had this discussion in the Jazz sub-forum. That way nobody would see it except us. How do you assign the roman numerals without assuming a key? Good question. Short answer - you do assume a key, at least for a section of the song.
Take a song like "Autumn Leaves." Here's the 1st 8 bars. | Am7 | D7 | Gmaj7 | Cmaj7 | | F#min7b5 | B7 | Em | Em | A 7th chord is usually the V-chord of some key either major or minor. In Jazz it doesn't have to be, but most often is. D7 is followed by G major in this song. We know that D7 is the V-chord of G so we treat the G as the I chord even though the song may or may not be in the key of G. The ii-chord of G is Am7. So Am7-D7-Gmaj7 is a ii-V-I progression. The next chord is C, the IV-chord of G. Next there are 2 chords leading to a final minor chord, Em. Now we treat Em as the I chord. That means B7 is the V-chord, and F#min7b5 is the II-chord. This gives us a minor II V I progression often written as ii-V-i. Lower case indicating a minor chord. So, if you asked me what the chord progression to the 1st 8 bars of "Autumn Leaves" is I could simply say: It's a 2-5-1-4 in G followed by a minor 2-5-1 in Em. Once you get the hang of recognizing certain common progressions like major 2-5-1s and minor 2-5-1s they become pretty easy to spot. It helps in learning new songs, figuring out the chords to a song, memorizing songs, and transposing to other keys.
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Post by bluesbruce on Mar 11, 2021 8:21:22 GMT -6
chords don't occur in isolation. They are coming from somewhere, going somewhere, or both. They occur as part of a progression.
It's fun to have these sort of "light bulb going on" moments. This concept has only taken me the better part of 60 years to "grok" (any sci-fi fans out there?). I first ran up against this when I dabbled with western swing long ago in my acoustical guitar days. The western swing course I studied presented this concept, and taught a series of "typical chord progressions" and encouraged thinking of these as musical phrases that are commonly used in various songs. Interestingly, some of the songs taught in that course would be considered jazz standards (Honeysuckle Rose, Old Fashioned Love, Rhythm Changes). Of course, I never made it all the way through that course... Mickey Baker also teaches "chord progressions" (never made it through that one, either...). More recently, I've "re-discovered" one of the Joseph Alexander e-books (that I'd probably bought on one of his sales at some point) "Chord Tone Soloing for Jazz Guitar: Master Arpeggio Based Soloing for Jazz Guitar". This one presents 13 "standard jazz chord progressions" and discusses basics of how to solo over them (of course, have never finished or even much looked at this one). Like I've alluded to before, I've already got a lifetime's worth of material to learn on my bookshelf. If I'd just learn half of what I already own, I'd be quite the musician! There is just something so darned appealing about buying another book or another on-line course or watching another Youtube video... Heck, even if I'd just absorb all of the BYCU series I'd be well on my way! Anyway, that's probably enough ranting for the day - I've still got to go to work (at least for a while...).
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