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Post by Marc on Jan 22, 2021 9:24:36 GMT -6
Something I've been thinking about a lot is the Jazz standard. I understand that most tunes that we now call Jazz standard were just popular songs that were then covered by jazz musicians and then became standard songs. Let me know if that is incorrect, that is just what I've picked up on in my learning.
I will admit I've not gotten very far into the Mickey Baker book. That being said one of the more interesting concepts I found in the Mikey Baker book was in Lesson 3 where the subject is taking some standard chords progressions and adding some jazz chords to them. When I play some of those un-jazzed up progressions they do not sound familiar. It maybe because of the age of the book, the age that I am. My interest in both jazz and blues did not start until I started to learn to play them. I'm not sure if that has to do with being musically naive.
I'm getting off topic. The point of this post is about taking a standard pop song and making it "Jazz" and how would you go about it. I've been playing around with a couple beinger guitar songs "House of the Rising Sun", and "Knocking on Heavens Door". How would you go about making a jazz song out of it? Is my thinking wrong in approaching it this way? should I have started with the melody and build cords around it that way?
For fun, I would challenge anyone interested in jazzin' up these chord progressions.
House of the Rising Sun | Am | C | D | F | | Am | C | E | E | | Am | C | D | F | | Am | Em | Am | Em7 | Knocking on heaven door | G | D | Am | | G | D | C |
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Post by Phil on Jan 22, 2021 10:17:18 GMT -6
Marc, I didn't recognize any of the "standard" progressions in Baker's book for a couple of years. It wasn't until I started learning more songs that I began to recognize some of them. I also found a section on Ralph Patt's website where he identifies songs by their tonal centers. That helped a lot. As a result I've identified most of the songs that Mickey Baker uses in the book. Lesson 3 1.  2. Tea for Two 3. Out of Nowhere (2nd 8 bars) 4. Honeysuckle Rose (in its most basic stripped down form) 5. Take the A Train Lesson 4 1. Just examples of the substitutions Baker typically uses. 2. Various turnarounds 3. If I Had You 4. I Got Rhythm 5/6. These 2 exercises are actually one progression that is inconveniently split over 2 pages. Believe it or not it is a 12-Bar Blues. Look at it carefully and you'll see it. BTW, the last 2 bars are impossible to play except at a very slow tempo.  As far as jazzing up pop songs. Keep in mind that you totally change the feel of song when you do that. The example that always jumps to my mind is Jose Feliciano's cover of "Light My Fire" by The Doors. He turned it into a very jazzy sounding tune. |
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Post by joachim on Jan 22, 2021 12:11:53 GMT -6
It's been posted here before, but I think a re-post is in order.
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 23, 2021 14:56:18 GMT -6
For fun, I would challenge anyone interested in jazzin' up these chord progressions.
Knocking on heaven door | G | D | Am | | G | D | C |
OK, here's my go at it, I'll call this "Knockin' Off Heavens Gate": Knockin Off mp3.mp3 (786.44 KB) This was done in Band-in-a-Box (I already had Knockin' On Heaven's Door saved). You know, a good song is a good song, and can be played in other styles. |
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Post by Phil on Jan 23, 2021 15:55:57 GMT -6
For fun, I would challenge anyone interested in jazzin' up these chord progressions.
Knocking on heaven door | G | D | Am | | G | D | C |
OK, here's my go at it, I'll call this "Knockin' Off Heavens Gate": View AttachmentThis was done in Band-in-a-Box (I already had Knockin' On Heaven's Door saved). You know, a good song is a good song, and can be played in other styles. Welcome to the Jazz forum, Bruce.  Nicely done, but I'll stick with Dylan's version or even Guns n' Roses.  I'm getting mental images of Kenny G. |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 24, 2021 10:14:53 GMT -6
Welcome to the Jazz forum, Bruce. That should be welcome back, Phil. It looks like I originally appeared on here 3-22- 2014, with the first video I ever made - lesson one from Jazzin' the Blues! |
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Post by Phil on Jan 24, 2021 10:45:45 GMT -6
Welcome to the Jazz forum, Bruce. That should be welcome back, Phil. It looks like I originally appeared on here 3-22- 2014, with the first video I ever made - lesson one from Jazzin' the Blues! Sorry about that, Bruce. I guess I'm so far behind I think I'm first.  |
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Post by Marc on Jan 25, 2021 8:30:41 GMT -6
Marc, I didn't recognize any of the "standard" progressions in Baker's book for a couple of years. It wasn't until I started learning more songs that I began to recognize some of them. I also found a section on Ralph Patt's website where he identifies songs by their tonal centers. That helped a lot. As a result I've identified most of the songs that Mickey Baker uses in the book. Lesson 3 1. 2. Tea for Two 3. Out of Nowhere (2nd 8 bars) 4. Honeysuckle Rose (in its most basic stripped down form) 5. Take the A Train Lesson 4 1. Just examples of the substitutions Baker typically uses. 2. Various turnarounds 3. If I Had You 4. I Got Rhythm 5/6. These 2 exercises are actually one progression that is inconveniently split over 2 pages. Believe it or not it is a 12-Bar Blues. Look at it carefully and you'll see it. BTW, the last 2 bars are impossible to play except at a very slow tempo. As far as jazzing up pop songs. Keep in mind that you totally change the feel of song when you do that. The example that always jumps to my mind is Jose Feliciano's cover of "Light My Fire" by The Doors. He turned it into a very jazzy sounding tune.I think I see what your saying. I've been tinkering with 'jazzin' up' both Knocking on heavens door and House of the rising sun I think i'll put that whole idea on the back burner for now. I really enjoy it when people do a cover and completely butcher it. Not as in play it poorly but do it their own way. Alien Ant Farm "Smooth Crimal" or Tori Amos "Smells Like Teen Spirit" come to mind. I enjoyed Jose's version of Light my Fire. That was the first time I've listened to it.
Passing thought....Why is it that when somone says "Jazz" they think Kenny G and not Tom Waits or Frank Zappa?
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 25, 2021 22:04:29 GMT -6
I think of a lot of things when someone says "jazz", but Kenny G is (fortunately) not one of them. Now FZ, on the other hand... I used to have a couple of Zappa's jazz albums. Two albums he made with Jean-Luc Ponty, one called "King Kong" - an absolute killer album; and another was "Cantaloupe Island" - including a killer rendition of that Herbie Hancock tune. Both highly recommended. Maybe you can find them on streaming services, I'll have to check and see.
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Post by Phil on Jan 26, 2021 0:25:09 GMT -6
Bruce, you're like a walking encyclopedia of recorded music. I did not know that Zappa played any Jazz or that he recorded with Ponty. I was never much of a Zappa fan back then. I did have a Jean-Luc Ponty album in the early 70s. I first heard him on a John McLaughlin album (I think it was with McLaughlin. Bruce can you verify that?). At the time I had no idea that this was a sub-genre of Jazz. I just thought it sounded cool.
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Post by Marc on Jan 26, 2021 2:46:06 GMT -6
I was taking a music appreciation class at a community collage and heard people talk about fusion. I was too embarrassed to ask what it was other than 'jazz rock'. I walked into a music store (remember those) and asked the guy at the counter if he could recomend and album that would tell me what fusion was. I walked out with The Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu_Orchestra. It was a mind blowing CD for me at the time.
I've never really listed to much Zappa but I know he's a remarkable guy.
It's interesting times we live in where you can have so much access to music. No longer do I have to spend $17 for a CD to find out fusion is.
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 26, 2021 6:52:26 GMT -6
I never really listened to McLaughlin and Mahavishnu Orchestra, but came to the "fusion" more from the rock side, for sure. I was a huge Zappa fan back in the 70's - even considered moving to Montana and becoming a dental floss tycoon for a while in my formative years, but was a little bit afraid of the dreaded yellow snow... That's how I came to discover Jean-Luc Ponty. The album "King Kong" is on spotify - it's actually a Jean-Luc Ponty album, though all the music is written by Zappa. FZ actually plays the guitar solo on "How Would You Like To Have a Head Like That". I absolutely love the sound of that electric violin in the jazz/rock/fusion idiom. Well worth a listen.
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Post by Marc on Jan 26, 2021 7:57:42 GMT -6
I never really listened to McLaughlin and Mahavishnu Orchestra, but came to the "fusion" more from the rock side, for sure. I was a huge Zappa fan back in the 70's - even considered moving to Montana and becoming a dental floss tycoon for a while in my formative years, but was a little bit afraid of the dreaded yellow snow... That's how I came to discover Jean-Luc Ponty. The album "King Kong" is on spotify - it's actually a Jean-Luc Ponty album, though all the music is written by Zappa. FZ actually plays the guitar solo on "How Would You Like To Have a Head Like That". I absolutely love the sound of that electric violin in the jazz/rock/fusion idiom. Well worth a listen. This has generated so many questions... why does one need to move to montana to become a dental floss tycoon? |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 26, 2021 8:32:54 GMT -6
Uh oh!
Montana:
Yellow Snow:
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 26, 2021 13:38:28 GMT -6
Bruce, have you seen the Zappa movie already (the new one)? No, haven't seen it. Have you, T? |
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Post by Marc on Jan 27, 2021 2:27:56 GMT -6
Bruce, have you seen the Zappa movie already (the new one)? All this talk about Frank got me to sit and watch it today. I highly recommend it. It's a long one little over 2 hours. |
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 27, 2021 7:28:10 GMT -6
Bruce, have you seen the Zappa movie already (the new one)? All this talk about Frank got me to sit and watch it today. I highly recommend it. It's a long one little over 2 hours. Thanks, Marc. I'll have to check it out sometime, I'm sure I'd find it interesting. |
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Nicely done, but I'll stick with Dylan's version or even Guns n' Roses. 
I'm getting mental images of Kenny G.
