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Post by Phil on Jan 19, 2020 9:35:39 GMT -6
I got serious this week about learning to solo. I've been focusing on chords and basic melodies so much that playing a solo has taken a back seat. I'm not talking about improvising. I'm talking about composing a half-way decent sounding solo. The way I look at it is if I can't put together a solo given as much time as I need there's no way I'll ever be able to improvise on the spot. It's been said that improvising is composing fast and composing is improvising slowly. I also learned something that's useful in Jazz, Blues or any other genre. When you learn a lick stay with that one single lick for awhile. Apply it to a solo immediately. Play it in different keys, different places on the fret board, and play it over a backing track. See which chords it works over best. Start it on a different beat. Change the phasing. Add a note. Take away a note. Play around with it every which wat you can. Milk it dry. Play it until it becomes ingrained in your brain and fingers. You'll be amazed at how much mileage you can get out of a single short lick. This is nothing new. I've heard various guitar teachers say this over and over again ever since I got back into playing the guitar. The problem is I never did it till now. My modus operandi has always been to learn a new lick or an entire etude and then move on to the next one. The result has been that I could never remember anything when I needed it. Yesterday I took 2 cliche Jazz licks each consisting of just 7 notes and played them over a 32-bar Jazz standard. That forced me to change the starting note to fit the chord changes, alter a note to make it fit over a chord, and really understand how they can be used. I had to put a lot of thought and effort into this little exercise. The bottom line is that I now know these 2 little licks and where they can be used. I'll never forget them (at least not for a week or so). That's my tip of the week.
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Post by bluesbruce on Jan 19, 2020 10:40:57 GMT -6
Phil, I've heard that same advice, as well. Take a lick, start it on every beat and on every sub-division (so in a triplet rhythm, start on the "one-" of the "one-and-a", then start on the "and" of the "one-and-a", then start on the "a" of the "one-and-a", then on to the "two-and-a"... I've always thought that sounded like a really good project to undertake, but I've never done it - kind of like playing something in every key. I suspect these kind of practices would really solidify your playing. My weekly report, unfortunately, remains stuck on an ever-lengthening hiatus from playing.
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Post by grampalerxst on Jan 19, 2020 11:52:44 GMT -6
I had a decent week. There was one day that I didn't touch Electric Gypsy (Oh, the humanity!) but I spent extra time on the project I have going with my SiL. I realized that all my guitar strings are about 2 years old now. My chemical makeup is relatively non-caustic and one set is Elixirs and one is Ernie Ball Paradigm which I think are treated in some way. I remember if my ex-brother-in-law played my guitar for 30 seconds within a week the strings would be rusted! He changed his own strings weekly. Anyway, contemplating putting new ones on mine. That's interesting Phil. I remember reading somewhere that most spontaneous blues solos aren't really improvised (although they're often called that). Rather, players call up and adopt their vocabulary of phrases, sometimes mixed in with snippets from the melody, to construct solos. Sounds roughly similar to what you're learning in the jazz world. Also sounds like you're getting ready for a video!
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Post by Phil on Jan 19, 2020 12:14:21 GMT -6
Phil, I've heard that same advice, as well. Take a lick, start it on every beat and on every sub-division (so in a triplet rhythm, start on the "one-" of the "one-and-a", then start on the "and" of the "one-and-a", then start on the "a" of the "one-and-a", then on to the "two-and-a"... I've always thought that sounded like a really good project to undertake, but I've never done it - kind of like playing something in every key. I suspect these kind of practices would really solidify your playing. My weekly report, unfortunately, remains stuck on an ever-lengthening hiatus from playing. Do most of us ever follow the advice of people who know what they're talking about? Probably not, but I bet the most accomplished players did. Here's the thing with me: if I spend time dicking around with a single lick I feel I'm missing out on something. An "opportunity cost" way of looking at it. I never thought in terms of learning a few things very very well. If you listen enough to a one guitarist you admire you'll start to hear the same lines popping up all over the place. I wonder if Joachim has noticed this with Peter Green's playing?
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Post by Phil on Jan 19, 2020 12:22:01 GMT -6
I had a decent week. There was one day that I didn't touch Electric Gypsy (Oh, the humanity!) but I spent extra time on the project I have going with my SiL. I realized that all my guitar strings are about 2 years old now. My chemical makeup is relatively non-caustic and one set is Elixirs and one is Ernie Ball Paradigm which I think are treated in some way. I remember if my ex-brother-in-law played my guitar for 30 seconds within a week the strings would be rusted! He changed his own strings weekly. Anyway, contemplating putting new ones on mine. That's interesting Phil. I remember reading somewhere that most spontaneous blues solos aren't really improvised (although they're often called that). Rather, players call up and adopt their vocabulary of phrases, sometimes mixed in with snippets from the melody, to construct solos. Sounds roughly similar to what you're learning in the jazz world. Also sounds like you're getting ready for a video! I'm convinced that that's the way it's actually done. Otherwise it would be like, "Here's the 12 note chromatic scale. Now pick out the ones that sound good together and go play some music." Here we go with that video thing again.
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Post by jack1982 on Jan 19, 2020 12:40:44 GMT -6
That's awesome that we're finally going to get a video from Phil! Woo-hoo!!! I was messing around with mixing major and minor pentatonics together in the same solo again. Kind of learned the first solo from a course on that, and also just working on employing that technique over another backing track. It's just a matter of learning how the notes are going to sound before you play them - I can do that with pentatonic minor and maybe with major, but not while switching back and forth all the time lol. That "other guy" is coming out with a new course on modern blues playing, so maybe I'll get going on that when it becomes a available.
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Post by cunningr on Jan 19, 2020 16:34:25 GMT -6
Hi lots of good reading this week. Well did a review of Playin with my friends and focused on a BB King lick. My instructor gave me 3 or 4 variations and homework was to use it by missing and matching phrases. Additionally, we covered the less is more thing you know use the silence. Play a phrase wait 4 beats then play another
Jack take a look at some Robert Cray songs he mixes major and minor scales pretty good, i actually picked up a lick starts in major and ends in the minor. What has helped me is visualizing the major pattern on top of the minor, what I Learned is minor pent box 2 is major scale played in the box 1 position-if that makes sense.
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Post by wannaplayblues on Jan 20, 2020 3:41:00 GMT -6
Sound advice from all of you - and things I've heard before too. Problem is, when I learn one lick well, it seems to get overwritten by the next I try to learn well
Not much playing this past week as I had family staying - however, I have successfully got down Eric Clapton's "I'm Tore Down" so hope to record that for you all soon.
Even better, I bought a new USB webcam with auto-focus and HD recording - so I'm hoping this will make a HUGE diference over my recent vids with a manual-focus lense. I also received a new condensor microphone - Tascam TM80 ( www.tascam.eu/en/tm-80.html) It requires phantom power - which is fine - and initial vocal tests seemed to get some good quality, so my playing through a mic'd amp might finally sound good
With potential gig approaching at the end of March (3 songs only) I bought a second-hand amp via Facebook Market. Got a 12inch 60watt solid-state. This'll allow me to lug it around and not worry about occasional nocks and dings, etc. Initial testing indicates a lot of bottom bass end as the amp case is closed-back, so I'm rolling the bass off quite a bit - nice that each channel has seperate bass/mid/treb controls It has 2 channels, clean and overdriven. My intnetion is to make better use of these. I generally only used the clean channel and let me multi-effects board create the sound or a dirty channel with no effects. I'd like to get better at using both to get nice clean tones when necessary and great overdriven sound at the press of a button. The amp does NOT do amp modelling, which I'm pleased about. It is the sound it produces and doesn't try to be something else.
Funny, in my playing recently, my mind has been pushing me to be more me - so no amp modelling as an example. I'm trying to create the sound I like - even if it's songs I'm rehearsing for the band/gig.
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Post by joachim on Jan 20, 2020 5:22:25 GMT -6
Phil, I've heard that same advice, as well. Take a lick, start it on every beat and on every sub-division (so in a triplet rhythm, start on the "one-" of the "one-and-a", then start on the "and" of the "one-and-a", then start on the "a" of the "one-and-a", then on to the "two-and-a"... I've always thought that sounded like a really good project to undertake, but I've never done it - kind of like playing something in every key. I suspect these kind of practices would really solidify your playing. My weekly report, unfortunately, remains stuck on an ever-lengthening hiatus from playing. Do most of us ever follow the advice of people who know what they're talking about? Probably not, but I bet the most accomplished players did. Here's the thing with me: if I spend time dicking around with a single lick I feel I'm missing out on something. An "opportunity cost" way of looking at it. I never thought in terms of learning a few things very very well. If you listen enough to a one guitarist you admire you'll start to hear the same lines popping up all over the place. I wonder if Joachim has noticed this with Peter Green's playing? Phil, yes I have that experience over and over again with Peter Green's playing. And surprisingly almost the same licks or ideas are used in very different tunes, both slow-blues and fast shuffles. I promised to kick-start a new forum activity - I haven't forgotten about it, but I've been too busy to wrap it up. I hope to do it in a couple of weeks.
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Post by jack1982 on Jan 20, 2020 7:03:17 GMT -6
Jack take a look at some Robert Cray songs he mixes major and minor scales pretty good, i actually picked up a lick starts in major and ends in the minor. What has helped me is visualizing the major pattern on top of the minor, what I Learned is minor pent box 2 is major scale played in the box 1 position-if that makes sense. Rich, yeah that's exactly the way "that other guy" teaches it - pentatonic minor box 2 played in box 1 position for the major sound, and then play box 1 for the minor sound. The course is actually laid out like the beginning of Blues You Can Use, with the first lesson being box 1, the second being box 2, etc. Think I'll get started on that second lessons today. Thanks for the tip on Robert Cray, I'll definitely give him a listen this afternoon.
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Post by Phil on Jan 20, 2020 10:40:05 GMT -6
Hey Jack. I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but take a look at this.
"A" major scale: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A B C# D E F# G# A
"A" minor pent: 1 b3 4 5 b7 A C D E G
"A" major pent: 1 2 3 5 6 A B C# E F#
"A" Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8 A B C# D E F# G A
I don't know if you ever looked at it like this before. Notice that the mixolydian mode is a combination of minor and major pentatonic minus the b3. Add the b3 and the b5 to the mixolydian and you've got 9 notes to work with. Using the 6th and the 9th (same as 2nd) can give a more major sound when over the I chord especially if you avoid the b7.
This may not help at all. But if you're looking the major and minor pent scales as separate entities it might.
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Post by Phil on Jan 20, 2020 10:47:02 GMT -6
Do most of us ever follow the advice of people who know what they're talking about? Probably not, but I bet the most accomplished players did. Here's the thing with me: if I spend time dicking around with a single lick I feel I'm missing out on something. An "opportunity cost" way of looking at it. I never thought in terms of learning a few things very very well. If you listen enough to a one guitarist you admire you'll start to hear the same lines popping up all over the place. I wonder if Joachim has noticed this with Peter Green's playing? Phil, yes I have that experience over and over again with Peter Green's playing. And surprisingly almost the same licks or ideas are used in very different tunes, both slow-blues and fast shuffles.I promised to kick-start a new forum activity - I haven't forgotten about it, but I've been too busy to wrap it up. I hope to do it in a couple of weeks. Yeah, it's surprising when you first realize how much the great players repeat lines or play the same lines with slight changes. The interesting thing is it's not noticeable when listening casually.
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Post by jack1982 on Jan 21, 2020 10:35:53 GMT -6
Hey Jack. I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but take a look at this. "A" major scale: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A B C# D E F# G# A "A" minor pent: 1 b3 4 5 b7 A C D E G "A" major pent: 1 2 3 5 6 A B C# E F# "A" Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8 A B C# D E F# G A I don't know if you ever looked at it like this before. Notice that the mixolydian mode is a combination of minor and major pentatonic minus the b3. Add the b3 and the b5 to the mixolydian and you've got 9 notes to work with. Using the 6th and the 9th (same as 2nd) can give a more major sound when over the I chord especially if you avoid the b7. This may not help at all. But if you're looking the major and minor pent scales as separate entities it might. It's funny how thing work out - you show how combining major and minor pentatonic creates the Mixolydian mode, and I just started to take a look at the new course at "the other site" and the first thing he talks about is the exact same thing - mixolydian if you want a major sound, dorian if you want a minor sound. So I'll definitely be delving into this whole thing quite deeply in the lifetime to come I also like what you mention in the other post about using the same phrases over and over; I loved Michael Schenker's song "Tales of Mystery" and had listened to it many times, and then I learned to play it and was rather amazed that the main melody was just the same lick over and over (with variations). How many times had I heard that and it never even occurred to me that it was repeating?
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Post by Phil on Jan 21, 2020 21:18:47 GMT -6
Yeah, if you add the b3rd and the b5 to the mixolydian you end up with a 9 note scale. You also get this interesting chromatic sequence - 2 b2 b3 3 4 b5 5. Seven of the 9 notes are chromatic! Just avoiding the b7 on the I-chord will give you major sound. Then hit that b7 on the IV chord. Of course, the hard part is finding licks, musical phrases, lines or whatever you want to call them within those 9 notes. Regarding using the same phrase over and over: Nobody notices it until it's analyzed. Then you start to hear it everywhere. Look up "The Lick" on YouTube. "The Lick" is a 7 note musical phrase that is the main melody for Santana's "Oye Como Va," for example, and occurs in every musical genre from classical to Rock to Jazz to Soul and everything in between. It's really incredible how many things are repeated in music, but by altering the phrasing, key, style, etc., one doesn't perceive it as being the same.
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Post by jack1982 on Jan 22, 2020 7:23:01 GMT -6
I'm working on that "Major Minor Blues Shapes" course, from um, some other site and it's got 5 sections and 5 solos, covering boxes 1-5. So far I can improvise a bit using box 1 of pentatonic minor with box 1 of pentatonic major in the same place on the fretboard. Sometimes I can go 10 whole seconds without hitting anything really cringe-inducing lol. So I'm still a long way from working with the "composite scale", or both of them at the same time, which is the starting point for this other new course I started on. This is gonna be a lifetime of work for sure. But I've been messing around with soling exclusively in pentatonic minor for pretty much my whole life, and of course a person can always improve their technique and their musicality, but theory-wise, I think it's time I learned some other scales, sounds, etc. So that seems like a good direction to go in. I was listening to the "Robben Ford & The Blue Line" album yesterday and there's some long solos on that, and I was kind of amazed - he's basically playing the same phrase over and over, adding various embellishments. Normally I'd never notice but we were just talking about that. Holy crap, I've been trying to come up with new phrases in just about every couple of bars lol. Well, I'll have to see where that leads me.
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Post by wannaplayblues on Jan 22, 2020 9:25:55 GMT -6
I was listening to the "Robben Ford & The Blue Line" album yesterday and there's some long solos on that, and I was kind of amazed - he's basically playing the same phrase over and over, adding various embellishments. Normally I'd never notice but we were just talking about that. Holy crap, I've been trying to come up with new phrases in just about every couple of bars lol. Well, I'll have to see where that leads me. I hear what you're saying. Thing is - I wish I could come up with a phrase that I liked to then alter/modify and play with it. Anything mine I hate - or it sounds scale-like. If I take a lick from someone else and like it - anytime I alter it, I dislike the result.
If I try to be objective, perhaps what I play isn't actually bad and I'm just too hard on myself; but I can't get my head to be happy with what I do, it just sounds amateur-ish to me. Like I've only been trying to improvise for 15 minutes. I end up playing licks I get out of a book as written with no blemish. If I actually make a lick my own - it's 'cos I learnt it wrong in the first place - that's happened a few times
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Post by Phil on Jan 22, 2020 10:41:38 GMT -6
Jack, Yesterday I learned a very cool swing blues lick in Bb. I just figured out that it's coming from the major pentatonic box 3 (same shape as minor pent box 4). It was one of those aha! moments. I've never knowingly used this box before. It's a great position for the major blues sound. It's easy to find because the root of the tonic chord is on the 2nd string. You play a D shape chord and you got 3 of the notes - X X X 10 11 10 (in Bb). I learned it from a YouTube video. I was going to explain it but decided it would be easier just to tab it out. Here it is plus another lick known as the Bebop lick. John goes over this one in "Jazzin' the Blues". If you string these 2 together you get a flowing line of 20 8th notes in a row. I've never played a phrase this long before ever. It's very cool, jazzy, and major sounding but needs to be used sparingly. It works especially well over bars 3 and 4 and resolving to the root of the IV chord in bar 5 where you can switch to the tonic Blues scale (minor pent + b5 and natural 3rd). I put it into context over the first 4 bars of a Blues. I think you'll really like the 1st lick, but you might also like the whole thing. If you have Guitar Pro 7 I can send you the file. If not just play it off the page. I see that the image is useless so I attached a PDF.
One more thing: in the tab those Bb chords in bars 1 and 3 can be dom 7th chords or maj 6th chords. Major 6 chords for the I-chord were common in the swing era. I7 was used in bar 4 to set up the IV-chord.
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