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Post by GnLguy on Jan 29, 2014 13:29:02 GMT -6
Next time that you tune your guitar with your favorite electronic tuner, try some random notes on your fretboard.
3rd string 9th fret should give you an E note. Is it in tune? Slide down to the 2nd fret for an A note - in tune?
You might be surprised….
I was working on a tune that you played 2nd fret 3rd string, followed with hammering an open note at the first. Sounded terrible b/c it was always slightly out of tune
So, I went the route of new strings, started adjusting the intonation and checking the neck relief. Same problem on both guitars - intonation correct at the 12th. Went to the 9th fret 3rd string, played an E note in tune. But the closer I got to the head stock, the more sharp the note. The A note was almost a full quarter tone sharp.
Started looking on the internet for answers and found that this is due to the slots in the nut not being deep enough. The article below is from Frets magazine and is written concerning acoustic guitars but the principle is the same.
This author state that you only need a slight amount of clearance on the 1st fret - thickness of a human hair - and he steps you thru the process very well.
And, best of all - it works. I’ve often wondered why guitars sounded out of tune on some open chords but in tune on others.
Most guitars come from the factory with a plastic nut so it cuts very easily. I’m going to buy files to do this but on my guitar, I used torch tip cleaners to work on the 3rd string as an experiment. Some use these tip cleaners to clean desoldering irons. Its a collection of small files and I slowly filed and checked often so as to not take too much.
I’ve now got A note in tune now at the 2nd fret 3rd string. This isn’t the perfect tool for doing this but it worked,. Going to wait till I get the complete file set to correct this problem on the rest of the strings
www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html
Tip Cleaners
www.ebay.com/itm/Cigar-Box-Guitar-Tools-Long-shaft-Nut-Bridge-File-Set-40-01-01-/171190024282?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item27dbb8785a
File set
www.ebay.com/itm/AxeMasters-Guitar-NUT-SLOT-FILE-SET-KIT-Luthier-Saws-BEST-AVAILABLE-/181042331681?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2a26f6c021
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Post by grampalerxst on Jan 29, 2014 17:53:42 GMT -6
Timely topic for me as just this past weekend I became aware of how awful my intonation has gotten. I've got one of those LRS roller nuts on mt strat and I'm not sure how or if that is adjustable on a per-string basis. Fortunately, a quick check per the first link seems to indicate my string height isn't bad. I bought a new set of strings and one of my chores this coming weekend is to restring and see if I can't get the intonation better. An iffy proposition to say the least, but a skill I would like to develop for myself.
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Post by GnLguy on Jan 29, 2014 20:19:13 GMT -6
Timely topic for me as just this past weekend I became aware of how awful my intonation has gotten. I've got one of those LRS roller nuts on mt strat and I'm not sure how or if that is adjustable on a per-string basis. Fortunately, a quick check per the first link seems to indicate my string height isn't bad. I bought a new set of strings and one of my chores this coming weekend is to restring and see if I can't get the intonation better. An iffy proposition to say the least, but a skill I would like to develop for mys elf
You said that your guitar has a roller nut - just to clarify: is it a roller bridge or nut?
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions during your setup. Unless your old strings are totally dead and won't hold tune, I would suggest setting the intonation using the old strings and checking it after you install the new ones
Just curious if your Strat has a tremolo or is a hard tail? And if it has a tremolo, have you ever changed strings on a guitar like this before before? My first experience of doing so wasn't very good and a friend had to help me out
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Post by grampalerxst on Jan 29, 2014 21:51:28 GMT -6
This type of nut www.fender.com/guitar-bass-parts/string-guides-nuts/lsr-roller-nut-assembly-brushed-chrome/The bridge is a trem bridge with block style saddles. It's a mid/late 90s. I don't remember exactly what they called it but it was a "deluxe" version of the American Standard, with the upgraded nut, tuners, pickups and bridge. I was thinking one day I might try to see if there's a way I can look it up by serial number to find out exactly what the model is called. Whatever paperwork I got with it (which wasn't much) is long misplaced and if I recall was pretty generic. Decent guitar though. It's not too much of a chore to restring, although it's been at least 8 years since I've done so. Locking tuners help.  Appreciate you offer to provide advice. This will be my first attempt at setting intonation on this guitar. I may gratefully take you up on it. |
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Post by GnLguy on Jan 30, 2014 6:25:04 GMT -6
I've never seen a roller nut like that before. Looks like a good design that would help prevent it from going out of tune if a person used the tremolo very much
Instead of one string at a time, I made the rookie mistake of removing all of the strings on a tremolo guitar without blocking the tremolo. Very hard to get one back in tune once those springs pull the block to the opposite extreme. Definitely won't do that again
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Post by grampalerxst on Jan 30, 2014 17:32:23 GMT -6
Despite my visions for myself a double handful of years ago, I really don't use the tremolo all that much. Yet another facet of playing I've deferred to that happy fantasy realm where I turn into a skilled player. I've always done one string at a time because a long, long time ago I was told that was the proper way to do it. |
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Post by Marc on Jan 30, 2014 19:43:56 GMT -6
The fender Tremolo is really a pretty solid bridge. From what i'm reading I thought i'd share this video on how to tune your and use your fender style tremolo. I would actually expect that roller nut to be harder on the guitar with it staying in tune. The less stretching you have the better. Anyhow I hope that helps
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Post by GnLguy on Jan 31, 2014 8:35:45 GMT -6
Marc
Thanks for posting that video. Mr Frudua has a lot videos to explain setups - I hadn't seen this one and it sure helps to understand the tremolo system. Amazing how the guitar snapped back in tune by only dive bombing the tremolo.
Think I will check out his You Tube channel to see the other videos that I've missed.
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Post by TommyD on Jan 31, 2014 16:03:39 GMT -6
That was a great video. There are some things I will do next time I tune up the Strat.
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Post by grampalerxst on Feb 1, 2014 6:14:04 GMT -6
Well, I was not totally successful with my intonation attempt. No matter what I try I'm still a little sharp at the 12th fret on the low E and A, and I've got the saddle as far back as I can get it to go, and the string height as low as I can get it. I've yet to see any information out there on this particular bridge style I have regarding information and setup, so I presume it was one fender only used for a very brief time on relatively few guitars. I suppose the truss rod could use a tweak, but short of buying some feeler gauges, eyeball wise nothing is obviously amiss there.
Nonetheless what adjustments I could make did help some, and it was definitely time for new strings.
marc998, I don't understand your comment about the LSR nut. Given an equal raising/lowering of tension in a string over an LSR nut versus a standard nut, why would the LSR nut cause more stretch in the string?
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Post by Marc on Feb 1, 2014 11:48:56 GMT -6
marc998, I don't understand your comment about the LSR nut. Given an equal raising/lowering of tension in a string over an LSR nut versus a standard nut, why would the LSR nut cause more stretch in the string? Keep in mind I'm no expert in guitar physics but i would think having a standard nut that would 'grip' the strings would be better than one that would let the strings slip. your tremolo is going to bend the string up and down and return them to starting position. i would think by letting strings slip though the nut that it may cause problems with it returning to the starting position. |
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Post by grampalerxst on Feb 1, 2014 15:46:19 GMT -6
marc998, I don't understand your comment about the LSR nut. Given an equal raising/lowering of tension in a string over an LSR nut versus a standard nut, why would the LSR nut cause more stretch in the string? Keep in mind I'm no expert in guitar physics but i would think having a standard nut that would 'grip' the strings would be better than one that would let the strings slip. your tremolo is going to bend the string up and down and return them to starting position. i would think by letting strings slip though the nut that it may cause problems with it returning to the starting position. Some guitars do have locking nuts where the string is fixed at the nut with a clamp, but those aside, for a guitar with a standard nut, the string has to move through the nut in order for the tuning pegs to affect the string's pitch/tension. The conventional wisdom is that any stickiness in the nut can cause tuning stability issues, especially with whammy bars and heavy bending because the friction doesn't allow strings to return completely to their original position (and hence their original pitch). One solution is the locking nut that clamps the string and immobilizes it at the nut once it's tuned (but the clamp has to be removed any time tuning is adjusted). Another solution is a "frictionless" nut which allows the string to move through the nut unencumbered and in theory return to it's original position reliably. I am neutral on the LSR nut I have on my guitar, for the way I play the guitar hold it's tuning pretty well, but I think a high quality graphite nut would do just as good a job for me. |
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Post by grampalerxst on Feb 3, 2014 10:46:52 GMT -6
Well, I overcame a substantial amount of reservation took a bit of a leap of faith yesterday and tightened my truss rod some. That made an appreciable difference. At some point the guitar's neck had developed excessive bow. I guess my string height wasn't as okay as my eyeball told me. Now, not only is the intonation improved, but the "playability" is much better. I'm giving the guitar a couple days to adjust to the new tension, then I'll tweak the bridge adjustment and call the operation reasonably successful.
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