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Post by joachim on Jul 19, 2019 12:05:08 GMT -6
I am working on "If You Be My Baby" from Fleetwood Mac's Shrine '69 album, and will be playing it in tonight's lesson. I've been messing around with making split-screen videos using Blender under Linux, and finally seemed to figure out how.
My playing is a little bland, and has a distinct "elevator-music" vibe compared to Peter Green's version. But I love those old songs, and learning them by ear is good practice.
Here's the original, cool stuff. One really surprising thing about the original is that the band somehow screws up in the first chorus and end up skipping two beats. It caused me a lot of head-aches figuring that out.
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Post by joachim on Jul 20, 2019 3:46:27 GMT -6
Thanks for letting me know, T-bone. I had the video flagged as "private" rather than "hidden".
Somehow I never grow tired of Peter Green. And learning his solos is also starting to become a lot easier, now that I recognize certain licks/ideas in across different solos. Many of his solos are remarkably simple, certainly not as technically challenging as the MBYCU studies, but his phrashing and sound is absolutely stunning.
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Post by jack1982 on Jul 20, 2019 5:05:18 GMT -6
Man that was some great stuff Joachim! The rhythm part was cool as hell too. I'm envious of your ability to transcribe all that stuff by ear, that's an awesome skill to learn!
I think your "elevator music" is just your nice clean sound vs. Green's very distorted, extremely trebley, heavily reverbed sound.
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Post by bluesbruce on Jul 20, 2019 6:47:32 GMT -6
I recognize certain licks/ideas in across different solos. Many of his solos are remarkably simple, certainly not as technically challenging as the MBYCU studies, but his phrashing and sound is absolutely stunning. Joachim, I think you've verbalized one of the greatest unspoken secrets of the blues there... I agree with Jack, dirty up your tone some - that's definitely part of his "sound" that you refer to. Another big part of the "elevator music vibe" is the mechanical, on the grid drum loop. Maybe someday they'll be able to program in some "humanization" (subtle imperfections in timing, variations in volume, ebb and flow as the song goes on, etc). Unfortunately, probably none of us can get Mick Fleetwood to play drums with us. I think your playing is great on this, and I really enjoyed listening to it. Keep up the good work!
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Post by Phil on Jul 20, 2019 11:04:42 GMT -6
Here's the original, cool stuff. One really surprising thing about the original is that the band somehow screws up in the first chorus and end up skipping two beats. It caused me a lot of head-aches figuring that out. Nice playing on this one (as always). I really like that rhythm part. Your ability to do this by ear is pretty damn impressive.
Regarding the missing 2 beats. That was a good catch. I certainly would have never noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. Let's see if we're on the same page with this. I think it occurs in the 8th bar. The pick up notes start on beat 2 instead of beat 4 and chops out a whole 2 beats causing bar 9 to start 2 beats early.
I don't understand how the whole band was able to do that without anybody getting thrown off for even a split second. Maybe they were just extremely adept at following Green's playing. Anyway, I found that to be pretty interesting.
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Post by joachim on Jul 20, 2019 11:36:27 GMT -6
Here's the original, cool stuff. One really surprising thing about the original is that the band somehow screws up in the first chorus and end up skipping two beats. It caused me a lot of head-aches figuring that out. Nice playing on this one (as always). I really like that rhythm part. Your ability to do this by ear is pretty damn impressive.
Regarding the missing 2 beats. That was a good catch. I certainly would have never noticed if you hadn't pointed it out. Let's see if we're on the same page with this. I think it occurs in the 8th bar. The pick up notes start on beat 2 instead of beat 4 and chops out a whole 2 beats causing bar 9 to start 2 beats early.
I don't understand how the whole band was able to do that without anybody getting thrown off for even a split second. Maybe they were just extremely adept at following Green's playing. Anyway, I found that to be pretty interesting.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement! Phil, yes, I also think that's what happened. It sounds OK, but when you try to play along with the rhythm you figure what's happening. It also sounds like Peter Green is thrown off a little by the rhythm guitar and pauses until the walk-down from V to IV.
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Post by Phil on Jul 20, 2019 12:43:49 GMT -6
I'm going to bore all of you with some rambling thoughts about what Joachim is doing and accomplishing.
This idea of focusing on the playing of one of your idols and copying them note for note from recordings is something worth paying attention to.
Flamenco guitarist, Paco de Lucia, started out his career as a clone of his idol, NiƱo Ricardo. He was on tour with Jose Greco's Flamenco company when another Flamenco legend, Sabicas, told him that when Paco returned to Spain he needed to focus on developing his own style. Paco went on to become the most influential Flamenco guitarist in history.
Another Flamenco great, Tomatito, started out as a Paco de Lucia clone. Wes Montgomery started out by copying everything he could from Charlie Christian records. Emily Remler copied what she could from Wes Montgomery. B.B. King started his career as a T-Bone Walker clone. Hard to believe since their styles are so different, but true. Just listen to very early B.B. King recordings. Stevie Ray Vaughn copied Albert King. The list goes on and on and on.
Not every single great guitarist did it to the extent these people did, but many of the greats copied their idols note for note early on in their learning. And they did it by ear.
So, I think Joachim is on to something here. Everybody on this forum should be aware that Joachim has only been playing guitar for about 1/10 the time that many of us have been playing. He's made more progress in less time than anybody I've ever known. There's a lesson for us all to be learned here.
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Post by joachim on Jul 21, 2019 6:38:15 GMT -6
BTW, here's a video link of me trying to play Albert King's Crosscut Saw... I just couldn't nail it, and I finally got so frustrated that I decided to put it on the backburner once I feel ready to continue working on it - I think that was about two years ago Maybe that proves my point that stuborness is key to the process of successfully learning by ear if you really want to get it down right...
Aaargh!Tbone, I enjoyed that a lot - I am not sure why you wouldn't be pleased about that. I agree with your point that there is as much to be learned by playing along and learning the phrasing.
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Post by Phil on Jul 21, 2019 9:25:15 GMT -6
BTW, here's a video link of me trying to play Albert King's Crosscut Saw... I just couldn't nail it, and I finally got so frustrated that I decided to put it on the backburner once I feel ready to continue working on it - I think that was about two years ago Maybe that proves my point that stuborness is key to the process of successfully learning by ear if you really want to get it down right...
Aaargh!Those 1st few bars sounded damn good. You sound better than you think you do. The object is not to sound exactly like Albert King. It's to absorb some of his stylistic idiosyncrasies and incorporate them in to your own playing. All those guitarists I mentioned who mimicked their idols in the beginning went on to develop their own unique styles. That was the real point I was trying to make.
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Post by cunningr on Jul 21, 2019 17:21:21 GMT -6
I agree with Phil good opening, I have been working on some Albert King stuff too. I have come to reality I will never sound exactly like any of my heroes but want to learn some of there signatures licks well enough so I can integrate into my on free style playing.
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Post by Phil on Jul 22, 2019 8:29:01 GMT -6
Hey y'all, thanks for the kind feedback. However, I really wasn't fishing for compliments but wanted to illustrate my point which guess I didn't really get across (judging from all the typos one might see I was quite in a hurry when I posted my comment, so that's what you get from rushing). I'm totally with you that transcribing solos is well worth the effort, it not only helps developing the ear but also the feel for the style and allows to learn how to play authentically among other benefits. But I can understand why some shy away from it, as it is a rocky road to begin with and not an easy path to develop repertoire - there are those short cuts in form of TAB, video lessons and such which are really tempting in that respect. Also,looking at learning licks ans solos as a means to integrate this stuff into ones playing I think you really need to get them down to the point as it's all about the idiosyncracies in touch, rhythm feel and such... that's what makes this stuff so exciting, and it#s much harder than just getting the notes down. Actually, that's the easy part... that's what I tried to show with that old video clip of mine. That being said: I didn't want to sound discouraging, rather in the contrary I intended to say "Go for it!" - but have fun whilst at it. And think of the reward: It can suck sometimes, but if you get there, you feel that much better. Greetings, T. One guy I watch a lot says that if you repeat someone else's lick or phrase enough times you will eventually feel compelled to change it just to keep from going crazy. When that happens you've made it your own. You're now playing it with your own touch and feel.
I wonder how many licks I learned from the 3 BYCU books that I went thru cover to cover. Want to know how many I could play right now without looking at the books? Maybe two! There were many that I liked, but I never repeated them to the point where they became part of my playing.
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Post by joachim on Jul 22, 2019 10:54:55 GMT -6
Hey y'all, thanks for the kind feedback. However, I really wasn't fishing for compliments but wanted to illustrate my point which guess I didn't really get across (judging from all the typos one might see I was quite in a hurry when I posted my comment, so that's what you get from rushing). I'm totally with you that transcribing solos is well worth the effort, it not only helps developing the ear but also the feel for the style and allows to learn how to play authentically among other benefits. But I can understand why some shy away from it, as it is a rocky road to begin with and not an easy path to develop repertoire - there are those short cuts in form of TAB, video lessons and such which are really tempting in that respect. Also,looking at learning licks ans solos as a means to integrate this stuff into ones playing I think you really need to get them down to the point as it's all about the idiosyncracies in touch, rhythm feel and such... that's what makes this stuff so exciting, and it#s much harder than just getting the notes down. Actually, that's the easy part... that's what I tried to show with that old video clip of mine. That being said: I didn't want to sound discouraging, rather in the contrary I intended to say "Go for it!" - but have fun whilst at it. And think of the reward: It can suck sometimes, but if you get there, you feel that much better. Greetings, T. One guy I watch a lot says that if you repeat someone else's lick or phrase enough times you will eventually feel compelled to change it just to keep from going crazy. When that happens you've made it your own. You're now playing it with your own touch and feel.
I wonder how many licks I learned from the 3 BYCU books that I went thru cover to cover. Want to know how many I could play right now without looking at the books? Maybe two! There were many that I liked, but I never repeated them to the point where they became part of my playing. Phil, I am with you there a 100% there. I've had a hard enough time just learning to play the studies. So I plan to go over the book again, at a quickler pace, focusing on licks and improvising. But I don't think it means we did anything wrong with the books - there's just so much in them.
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Post by Phil on Jul 22, 2019 15:01:40 GMT -6
One guy I watch a lot says that if you repeat someone else's lick or phrase enough times you will eventually feel compelled to change it just to keep from going crazy. When that happens you've made it your own. You're now playing it with your own touch and feel.
I wonder how many licks I learned from the 3 BYCU books that I went thru cover to cover. Want to know how many I could play right now without looking at the books? Maybe two! There were many that I liked, but I never repeated them to the point where they became part of my playing. Phil, I am with you there a 100% there. I've had a hard enough time just learning to play the studies. So I plan to go over the book again, at a quickler pace, focusing on licks and improvising. But I don't think it means we did anything wrong with the books - there's just so much in them. I had big plans to go thru MBYCU again and re-record everything. Like with so many of my plans I never got around to doing it. I got side tracked by this Jazz thing. I blame that on John G's "Jazzin' the Blues."
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Post by jack1982 on Jul 23, 2019 10:27:41 GMT -6
That sounded good Tbone, I think what you're talking about with the phrasing is just a matter of - as I used to say when working through More Blues You Can Use - practice it until you think you'll go insane if you play through it one more time. Then you know you're halfway there I was never into learning other people's licks, I'd just wing it, but now I'm learning that a lot of stuff my idols played were just stock licks, modified a bit and played in the person's own style. That's yet another thing I need to work on lol.
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